Heartland

When you make a test pressing for the sole purpose of selling it (and not because your testing anything) then it's not really a test pressing. More of a ripoff really.

Dan wrote: ↑04 Mar 2024, 17:58 When you make a test pressing for the sole purpose of selling it (and not because your testing anything) then it's not really a test pressing. More of a ripoff really.

Makes me wonder if Von is actually aware of it or actually had anything to to with the re-issue in the first place.
Given that Cadiz are also now selling Sisters bootlegs, it just looks more dodgy each day.

Postcard flyers were available at the Sisters merch stall in 2019 and 2020, which lends an air of semi-legitimacy to it. The intent at least seems to have been there, but whether Cadiz overreached their ability to deliver, whether Von messed up with his usual delays, or whether it was something else, who can say?

I have the original, it's probably not mint but it hasn't been played much in the last thirty odd years. Are you telling me it's finally worth more than I paid for it?

Pista wrote: ↑04 Mar 2024, 18:35

Dan wrote: ↑04 Mar 2024, 17:58 When you make a test pressing for the sole purpose of selling it (and not because your testing anything) then it's not really a test pressing. More of a ripoff really.

Makes me wonder if Von is actually aware of it or actually had anything to to with the re-issue in the first place.
Given that Cadiz are also now selling Sisters bootlegs, it just looks more dodgy each day.

To be fair Cadiz are just selling the same bootlegs as Amazon are. That doesn't legitimize it, but it's probably not a conspiracy.

I'm wondering how this "Radio Broadcast" law works. Has anyone looked into the legalities of how it works?

(Putting aside the fact that none of them are radio broadcasts...)
So now people are legally allowed to release radio broadcasts? Is this UK law or some other country? (I'm reminded of a time in the 80's/90's when bootlegs were seemingly legal in Italy, and many originated from there.)
Previously you'd have to ask the radio stations permission to release their content, so now that's not necessary and permission is automatically given??
If this were the case you'd still have to pay royalties to the songwriter. So are the songwriters receiving anything?
Or is the whole thing a total lie and they're NOT allowed to release radio broadcasts??

I recall a rumour from some years back that some were officially released to assert copyright. I think the specific case I'm remembering is a truckload of Pink Floyd bootlegs appearing on streaming, then disappearing again after a short while.

Dan wrote: ↑06 Mar 2024, 19:05 I'm wondering how this "Radio Broadcast" law works. Has anyone looked into the legalities of how it works?

(Putting aside the fact that none of them are radio broadcasts...)
So now people are legally allowed to release radio broadcasts? Is this UK law or some other country? (I'm reminded of a time in the 80's/90's when bootlegs were seemingly legal in Italy, and many originated from there.)
Previously you'd have to ask the radio stations permission to release their content, so now that's not necessary and permission is automatically given??
If this were the case you'd still have to pay royalties to the songwriter. So are the songwriters receiving anything?
Or is the whole thing a total lie and they're NOT allowed to release radio broadcasts??

I'm not sure about the legality of any of it, there are loads of these "Radio Broadcasts" on Amazon now, I'm sure that hardly any of them were ever on the radio, they are just bootlegs. Now Von probably doesn't care, and doesn't have the desire to engage his legal team but there are many Metallica bootlegs on Amazon now, and Lars certainly has the legal team to go up against Besos and co should he choose.
The Pink Floyd instance was a seperate thing altogether, they actually were issued by the band (or it's representatives) themselves. These Radio broadcasts are not. But again, as you say, these are not and have never been radio broadcasts.

It's an european legislation. The gist of it is basically the same that allowed Italian labels to release bootlegs in the 80's: any public broadcast can bé released without the permission of the copyright owners, you only need to pay upfront a royalty for each copy pressed. At some point in the mid 90's they added a 25 year clausule, meaning the broadcast had to be at least 25 Years old, and unreleased in any format, to become this sort of públic domain.

The "problem" now is there's no way of preventing these labels from releasing live stuff that wasn't broadcasted, because there's no (easy) way to prove if It was or not. And probably those labels close down and change names every two or three months, so no point in suing them. Maybe at some point the music industry will Be able to lobby and pass some legislation that prevent this to happen. Right now they only can claim the ownership of those broadcasts by releasing them before the bootlegers.

z666 wrote: ↑07 Mar 2024, 02:50 Right now they only can claim the ownership of those broadcasts by releasing them before the bootlegers.

And in reality they don't own them either. Is it really a problem though, do bands lose out on revenue? Von doesn't because there is no alternative product we could buy, and I would argue that people buying Metallica or AC/DC etc radio broadcast boots are completists and already have "If you want blood" in multiple formats already.

ribbons69 wrote: ↑07 Mar 2024, 03:58

z666 wrote: ↑07 Mar 2024, 02:50 Right now they only can claim the ownership of those broadcasts by releasing them before the bootlegers.

And in reality they don't own them either. Is it really a problem though, do bands lose out on revenue? Von doesn't because there is no alternative product we could buy, and I would argue that people buying Metallica or AC/DC etc radio broadcast boots are completists and already have "If you want blood" in multiple formats already.

"do bands lose out on revenue? Von doesn't because there is no alternative product we could buy, "

Grr

mh wrote: ↑20 Feb 2024, 20:09 I'm even more disappointed by the general overall shoddiness of this now, because the vinyl sounds fantastic. This could have been a definitive release of the LP if care and attention had been paid to the content.

Maybe they were too busy trying to put together all of the "extras" that were discussed a while back (that never materialized) that they forgot to focus on the actual material!

Seriously though, can anyone comment on the CD? Sound quality? I have an original CD (I think it's original) which sounds perfectly fine to me, wondering if there's anything to be gained (length of songs, sound, etc.). I don't have a turntable so I don't buy vinyl...because years ago I admitted to myself that I would absolutely go broke from sheer obsession.

Nice looking piece of silver plastic, no cards, and some dust and small pops from playing it.
All in all, I'm okay with my re-issued Gift.
Probably sounds better than my old 1985 copy.

Frifor Gaffateip wrote: ↑13 Mar 2024, 21:02 Nice looking piece of silver plastic, no cards, and some dust and small pops from playing it.
All in all, I'm okay with my re-issued Gift.
Probably sounds better than my old 1985 copy.

Everything will sound better than a 1985 copy

Everybody knows The Sisterhood were shite in 1985 anyway.

Electrochrome wrote: ↑08 Mar 2024, 23:59

mh wrote: ↑20 Feb 2024, 20:09 I'm even more disappointed by the general overall shoddiness of this now, because the vinyl sounds fantastic. This could have been a definitive release of the LP if care and attention had been paid to the content.

Maybe they were too busy trying to put together all of the "extras" that were discussed a while back (that never materialized) that they forgot to focus on the actual material!

Seriously though, can anyone comment on the CD? Sound quality? I have an original CD (I think it's original) which sounds perfectly fine to me, wondering if there's anything to be gained (length of songs, sound, etc.). I don't have a turntable so I don't buy vinyl...because years ago I admitted to myself that I would absolutely go broke from sheer obsession.

ive got an orig CD, a CD-r burned from a straight rip of the orig CD, a CD-r burned from .flacs of the orig, a CD-r burned from a needledropped orig vinyl and a CD-r burned from mp3s of the orig CD. Theyre all on my hard drive & you couldnt get a cigarette paper between any of them for difference. ive also got the flacs of the cadiz CD and they are without a doubt different being the only one that is utter shit. like if you bought a "Gift" from Wish. sound quality doesnt matter in this case as you cannot polish a turd.

paint it black wrote: ↑15 Mar 2024, 09:01

Frifor Gaffateip wrote: ↑13 Mar 2024, 21:02 Nice looking piece of silver plastic, no cards, and some dust and small pops from playing it.
All in all, I'm okay with my re-issued Gift.
Probably sounds better than my old 1985 copy.

Everything will sound better than a 1985 copy

Got my copy today, #265/1000… postcard included, and the vinyl… well, more grey than silver.

eastmidswhizzkid wrote: ↑16 Mar 2024, 05:10

Electrochrome wrote: ↑08 Mar 2024, 23:59

mh wrote: ↑20 Feb 2024, 20:09 I'm even more disappointed by the general overall shoddiness of this now, because the vinyl sounds fantastic. This could have been a definitive release of the LP if care and attention had been paid to the content.

Maybe they were too busy trying to put together all of the "extras" that were discussed a while back (that never materialized) that they forgot to focus on the actual material!

Seriously though, can anyone comment on the CD? Sound quality? I have an original CD (I think it's original) which sounds perfectly fine to me, wondering if there's anything to be gained (length of songs, sound, etc.). I don't have a turntable so I don't buy vinyl...because years ago I admitted to myself that I would absolutely go broke from sheer obsession.

ive got an orig CD, a CD-r burned from a straight rip of the orig CD, a CD-r burned from .flacs of the orig, a CD-r burned from a needledropped orig vinyl and a CD-r burned from mp3s of the orig CD. Theyre all on my hard drive & you couldnt get a cigarette paper between any of them for difference. ive also got the flacs of the cadiz CD and they are without a doubt different being the only one that is utter shit. like if you bought a "Gift" from Wish. sound quality doesnt matter in this case as you cannot polish a turd.

That is a great and greatly appreciated reply, thank you! That settles it, I'll pass on the Cadiz product.

Vive le Rock magazine are now offering the CD as a free gift to incentivize subscriptions: https://vivelerock.net/products/3-mag-m ... ve-le-rock

mh wrote: ↑20 Mar 2024, 16:16 Vive le Rock magazine are now offering the CD as a free gift to incentivize subscriptions: https://vivelerock.net/products/3-mag-m ... ve-le-rock

Giving the cd away as part of an offer would seem to indicate poor sales.
I think we can give up all hope of a new Sisters album.
Any chance of a late career flourish had gone.

But this is a promotional move. Giving VLR 30 CD's is cheaper than buying half a page in the mag for some add. Those digisleeves costed them around one quid each, so it's 30 pounds, half a page would be what, 500? That's it.

In any casé it'd be foolish from them expecting a success. This is a re-release of a not particularly atractive álbum that not only fans, but almost every Sister aficionado has heard and bought, even if most people didn't even like It enough. And then it's the downgrading: from a Deluxe double disc with, allegedly, unreleased material of some kind, curated (and signed) by the Man himself that would have sold greatly to a cheap Cd with none of the above and then an equally cheap vinyl... I mean, what's the incentive to buy it, even more once Eldritch didn't want to be near it?

Maybe Cadiz has done some great work with other re-releases, but this one has been an epic f*ck up. I bet it's not entirely their fault and the other party did also his job, sure, but still a mess.

Moderate Mick wrote: ↑04 Apr 2024, 13:34

mh wrote: ↑20 Mar 2024, 16:16 Vive le Rock magazine are now offering the CD as a free gift to incentivize subscriptions: https://vivelerock.net/products/3-mag-m ... ve-le-rock

Giving the cd away as part of an offer would seem to indicate poor sales.
I think we can give up all hope of a new Sisters album.
Any chance of a late career flourish had gone.

I'm sorry, but this could have sold tens of thousands and we still wouldn't have got a new record. Von doesn't want to release a new album, the sales of a budget re release of an obscure Sisters related project knocked out in a couple of weeks in 1986 is never going to change that.

z666 wrote: ↑05 Apr 2024, 12:43 But this is a promotional move. Giving VLR 30 CD's is cheaper than buying half a page in the mag for some add. Those digisleeves costed them around one quid each, so it's 30 pounds, half a page would be what, 500? That's it.

In any casé it'd be foolish from them expecting a success. This is a re-release of a not particularly atractive álbum that not only fans, but almost every Sister aficionado has heard and bought, even if most people didn't even like It enough. And then it's the downgrading: from a Deluxe double disc with, allegedly, unreleased material of some kind, curated (and signed) by the Man himself that would have sold greatly to a cheap Cd with none of the above and then an equally cheap vinyl... I mean, what's the incentive to buy it, even more once Eldritch didn't want to be near it?

Maybe Cadiz has done some great work with other re-releases, but this one has been an epic f*ck up. I bet it's not entirely their fault and the other party did also his job, sure, but still a mess.

Up to a point, I'd give Cadiz a pass.

Just for context, I think it's brilliant that a new fan of the band can now go into a record shop (or go online) and purchase a brand-spanking-new copy of Gift on their format of choice, without having to go through the secondhand market and without having to stress over condition of the item or having to pay an excessive price. They can also listen to it on the streaming service of their choice, which is not to everybody's taste for sure, but the option is there for those who want it.

Prior to this reissue, there was no option. You either had a copy already, or you went to the secondhand market, paid what was being asked (admittedly it's not too expensive on Discogs), and took your chances with the condition.

Up to here is where Cadiz get their pass, because they did make a cock-up of the reissue. OK, I'll also give them a pass where reasonable doubt exists as to whether Von himself may have been at fault.

What they don't get a pass for is the messed-up fades on Colours and Rain from Heaven. They don't get a pass for the messed-up packaging and uncertainty over which version you've just ordered. They don't get a pass for their shockingly poor communication. They particularly don't get a pass for the messed-up fades, and that bears repeating because all they had to do was listen to a copy of the original to realise that something was wrong.

That's upsetting and annoying because this came so close to being a definitive version of the LP, but only to fail in such a spectacular, obvious and unnecessary manner. Emphasis on "unnecessary", which is probably the most annoying part of it.

didn't Cadiz sell 30 'test pressings' of Gift a few months back at over £100 each? how could they have needed 30 copies to test the quality?!