Heartland

Cheque's in the post, Wild Bill.

I can only accept credit card skims and PIN numbers,sorry.

I absolutely agree with Billy re the uselessness of live bootlegs, but I'm not convinced Von is gigging solely for the money. Seriously, has he ever said owt to indicate he's playing sets just to pay off tax? The lack of a bassist does suggest a certain stinginess, I admit...but that's quite a supposition to make.

Sloughing his way around the world playing small to mid-sized venues suggests a man with a degree of fondness for his fanbase, does it not? If he were simply out to make money, he could probably fill out bigger barns by announcing a greatest hits package, inviting Wayne to do a solo acoustic spot (!) and releasing the proverbial box set alongside the newish stuff.

Sure, he's dismissive about goths and insists on playing more than a reasonable share of the 'difficult new material', but when the fcuk were the Sisters ever supposed to be easy? From what I can see, he makes life deliberately difficult for himself through his decisions, but he seems to think it's important to do things his way, and I can dig that. For now.

Mokarran

He's dismissive about goths and insists on playing more than a reasonable share of the 'difficult new material'

I think he wants to have his cake and eat it too. And why shouldn't he, it's worked for the last ten years. Perhaps he hates music and is going through the motions for the cash, but hey, it's a square deal. We get gigs, he gets money. The only people annoyed are those looking for a belief system as well as a beat.

That said, the fact that he plays so much music that turns off the casual fan (heavier in tone, almost impossible to access unless you are a net nerd) is interesting. Maybe he's only recently given up hope.

Either way, he doesn't care. Really, we should get over it - he really doesn't care what any of us think. If he did, he could have product out easily - we know that because so much of it is played live. So he doesn't care.

I don't really agree that live bootlegs are "useless" per se; they serve as a document of the concert if nothing else. And some of them are damn fine to listen to. They have the effect of making any hypothetical "live album" release less likely I suppose, but I don't think that was ever going to happen anyway.

If you're saying that it would make a lot more money than what he's currently doing, that would perhaps suggest that a greatest hits package, inviting Wayne to do a solo acoustic spot (!) and releasing the proverbial box set is what the fans do want... Of course we'd all scream "sell-out" on here, but do I suspect it would be the "commercially sensible" thing to do. But I think it even more unlikely than a live album.

From more recent interviews, his attitude to goths seems to be less directly confrontational than it was IIRC. But then a lot of us betray a similar attitude IMO. I know I'm certainly guilty of p!ss-taking of some goths even when I'm (ugh it hurts to type it ) a goth myself.

I've just been for a spin up to that website, and noticed that it quite prominently features the words:

You're welcome.

They've been there for a long time, but perhaps they are pertinent to my argument above. There's been a transaction - we asked for product, they asked for cash, we handed over some cash, the product was handed across the counter in the form of gig tickets and some old albums from the 1980s - and we were told we're welcome.

Fair enough.

None of us can know (or even particularly guess at) what motivates him these days; but I think he still tours because he enjoys it, he can still get people to come to the shows, he has some fun, hangs around with the crew, whatever, but I would guess that it's not beyond the realms of possibility that part of the reason there's no new release is that he's largely lost interest in the recording side of being in a band. Not that he doesn't care at all, but he doesn't care enough to put himself through the record-company bullsh!t and self-promotion necessary to launch a new record.

I think Markfiend is right - we can't know what's in his shiny bald head, but the premise outlined above seems very likely.

markfiend wrote: From more recent interviews, his attitude to goths seems to be less directly confrontational than it was IIRC. But then a lot of us betray a similar attitude IMO. I know I'm certainly guilty of p!ss-taking of some goths even when I'm (ugh it hurts to type it ) a goth myself.

Maybe it's also that goth is no longer what it used to be. Do the young latex-clad SM goths care so much about the Girls ? They're still regarded somehow as the Godfathers of goth, but are they still major players, at a time when anything slightly dark-ish (electro, doom, black metal...) is called goth ?
Back when the Girls were big (at least in terms of sale) there was a us-against-the-goth-world kind of feeling to it, but now it would just be grumpy-old-man-from-dinosaur-band hates the goths. In other words, does it still make sense to make fun of the goths when few people care ?

markfiend wrote:Not that he doesn't care at all, but he doesn't care enough to put himself through the record-company bullsh!t and self-promotion necessary to launch a new record.

You're probably right. At the Luxembourg show, Paul told me that he'd had a chat with Von, and that he'd said that he had two whole shelves of new songs completely finished. But he couldn't see the point in releasing them. I know it's sad, but I can't help thinking it makes sense from an artist's point of view.

Paul told me that he'd had a chat with Von, and that he'd said that he had two whole shelves of new songs completely finished. But he couldn't see the point in releasing them. I know it's sad, but I can't help thinking it makes sense from an artist's point of view.

Well, I think that's actually rather good news, if true, as they might get released for the one of the main reasons that artists create art - for other people to enjoy.

I reckon he'd do okay if he put out a CD - as the live shows have demonstrated, there are sisters fans everywhere, and he's won a lot of new friends on this tour.

Markfiend - my point was simply that Von chooses not to go down the most obviously commercial/exploitative path, so money cannot be his sole motivation. Can it?

'Goth - a new definition'. Sounds like an interesting thread. Who wants to go first?

Mokarran

Mokarran wrote:'Goth - a new definition'. Sounds like an interesting thread. Who wants to go first?

"If Sisters members/fans automatically consider the band to be crap and a ripoff, then the band is goth."

Essay time. You have been warned

Motz wrote:

Essay time. You have been warned

Essay time > Motz, I didn't know you spoke spanish.

Nah, it's French

Mokarran wrote:From what I can see, he makes life deliberately difficult for himself through his decisions

That's closer to the truth than a lot of folks may realise. He's said as much, in the very same words, in interviews in the past.

Badlander wrote:
You're probably right. At the Luxembourg show, Paul told me that he'd had a chat with Von, and that he'd said that he had two whole shelves of new songs completely finished. But he couldn't see the point in releasing them. I know it's sad, but I can't help thinking it makes sense from an artist's point of view.

I'd be inclined to agree there Badlander. With the ammount of effort that Von puts into the lyrical structure to get them to work on multiple levels and finding the right vehicle for said lyrics, it's hardly surprising that the exaspiration and frustration he feels when whatever he does gets hopelessly (deliberately in some pondlife cases) misinterpreted. The best examples of that I can think of are from Marian, which is about the death of the individual within social conformity: "In a sea of faces, in a sea of doubt...In the wake of the ship of fools..." and also the compete misunderstanding of the use of the word "grave" (in this case meaning "serious" rather than where one gets put after death) and in Alice: "Pass the crystal, spread the tarot..." the casually stupid ignore the next line; "In illusion comfort lies." I can remember reading several interviews with him where he decried the death of understanding of what a metaphor is and how it's used. A view shared by Lenard Cohen (interview in an issue of UTR, can't remember which one).

So it's hardly surprising he no longer wishes to cast pearls before swine in a recorded format, then have to justify what he does and how he does it, as well as having to put up with asinine and purile questions from pondlife. If memory serves, he actually walked out on one interviewer when she opened proceedings with "So, Prince of Darkness..." Not once, but twice and he left her in ribbons.

Fair enough Syberberg but just 'cause you're a great lyricist disnae mean you can vanish up yer own jacksie

Syberberg wrote:Not once, but twice and he left her in ribbons.

Did she look good?

weebleswobble wrote:Fair enough Syberberg but just 'cause you're a great lyricist disnae mean you can vanish up yer own jacksie

A wonderful 'nail/head' interface Stephen

markfiend wrote: From more recent interviews, his attitude to goths seems to be less directly confrontational than it was IIRC.

.. more a case of adjusting to reality? What does he see when looking into his audience? He doesnt see a pop crowd, he might see a bit of a rock crowd, but dominately he sees a goth crowd. If they wouldnt still believe in him and buy concert tickets, no one would. It's easy to be arrogant towards your audience when you're young and have the prospect of a bright future as a major rock artist. But times got sour....

canon docre wrote:What does he see when looking into his audience?

Balding old fat blokes, Specky bastards and Ginger nuts!

James Blast wrote:

canon docre wrote:What does he see when looking into his audience?

Balding old fat blokes, Specky bastards and Ginger nuts!

Is that you,me and Keith

Pat wrote:

James Blast wrote:

canon docre wrote:What does he see when looking into his audience?

Balding old fat blokes, Specky bastards and Ginger nuts!

Is that you,me and Keith