Heartland

Bartek wrote:You're (Being645) putting words in my mouth ...

FACT!™© ... Get over it.... ... That's what's happening to me here every time I give my opinion.

Persiflage?
I can enjoy it, but only when it's good.

Planet Dave wrote:
Here's the thing, subjectivity. The live sound is not letting the band down, it's (via bootleg recordings) letting you or your expectations down.

Nope, as I stated, this is also from personal experience of seeing the band live, during decades, together with many other fans. The problem is also very evident from a host of high quality recordings.

Planet Dave wrote:It can't possibly be letting the band down cos they keep on selling out gigs. That is a fact,

I don't follow your logic here – a band can't have a live sound that could/should be improved, and still sell out gigs?

Planet Dave wrote: the above quote from yourself is an opinion. Ascribing opinions as facts is never a good way to conduct a debate.

It is/ a fact that I, and many other fans, think that the band's live sound is weak, and that it is a problem.

Also, I'm not trying to "conduct a debate". I think the live sound is a big problem for the band, has been for a long time, and – for me and many others – it's a continuing disappointment, which could and should (if they have the means) be remedied. I just want to discuss this, and hear what other fans think about it.

Fore some reason, it seems it hit a raw nerve with some people.

Planet Dave wrote: Undoubtedly the sound has changed, and the main reason for it has been expressed twice in this thread and dismissed by yourself both times. Shame cos the band's website explains this reason too.

What it does it say? I've looked but couldn't find anything specific. Most of the stuff there seems (as far I can see) to be very dated texts about their equipment, with Von referring to SCSI etc.

Planet Dave wrote: But seeing as this is a civilised place for debate, please do explain how you think the band could 'easily be so much better'.

By improving their live sound so it's louder, more organic, and more powerful.

Planet Dave wrote: This would surely lead to a more productive debate

I sincerely hope to have a more productive discussion. It shouldn't be a "debate", and I'm sorry some people see it that way.

Planet Dave wrote: than simply reiterating your opinion repeatedly.

I have been forced to repeatedly clarify my opinion, which is different.

Planet Dave wrote: Please remember the golden rule of not ascribing said opinion as fact in your reply...

If I feel that the band has a live sound problem, for decades, all my friends agree about this, as does apparently a lot of other fans – then the fact is that for us at least, the band does have a live sound problem.

Yggdrasil wrote:

Being645 wrote:For me this whole thread is just another disappointment of this fanbase. .

So attempting to discuss why the band's live sound is lacking these days disappoint you? .

>>> As if it were the very first time this discussion has come up ... don't quote my words out of context!<<<

Yggdrasil wrote:I and others who feel the same way are not real fans? .

>>> I have never ever in all the years of this ever same discussion said such a thing. And I never would.
In return it's me who is regularly named and shamed, because I don't have a problem with The Sisters' live performances and the natural issues that live performances bring with them and because I don't call them s**t or messy or a let-down or all those - in my view (yeah, it's an opinion, too) - unfair judgements regarding the effort they make.<<<

Yggdrasil wrote:That's the first time I've ever been called that. I've been a diehard SoM fan since I first heard Alice right when it came out, and have followed the band in all its incarnations since then, and have enjoyed them all. But apparently that doesn't allow me to hold any opinions on the band beyond pure adoration.

>>> You see, you do it as well .. “pure adoration�? But you are only one in a hundred so-called die-hards trying to shame me and devaluate my opinion in this and other ways. And it happens even when I don’t say a word. And yes, I think the way people talk about those of other opinion (especially those who are not ranting against The Sisters) here (and probably even more elsewhere) is just nasty and degrading. And no, this time I won't let it pass with out reaction. I won't ignore that sort of underlying personal attack uncommented any longer. You are only one expample of what I've been presented here with for my opinion and for not joining the chorus (or is it FB?), and yes, I don't find it funny any longer. Every person with a brain can clearly see, that The Sisters are not perfect (fortunately). But with words like “pure adoration� you intent to blackmail people into to saying, oh, no, no ... see, here, this is what I find s**t about that band. So that you can claim later EVERYBODY agrees, they are s**t. But you won't get that from me. Face it and respect my opinion!!! Or don't. You claim you (and your plenty friends of the same opinion) are in the majority here, anyway, and it will surely make you many more friends to mistreat me than to respect me, won’t it. Definitely on Facebook. And not only that: you shouldn't show too much sympathy for me in order not to lose points on the die-hard real fan board. I know it and you know it and everybody knows it.<<<

Yggdrasil wrote:

Being645 wrote: The last tour was the best we've seen in decades ... with a new guitarist, new songs, Von's voice improved (until that idiot cold hit him in Wroclaw) and the mood and attitude of the band all played hand in hand and changed into a more than welcome optimitistic direction ...

I happen to agree with this, if that means anything to you. But that doesn't change the fact that they live sound is letting the band down. They could easily be so much better, just with better sound. As utterly anal as Von is with production, I'm surprised he's letting the live sound slide like this.

>>> You can be sure that Von is not always satisfied with their performances and does what he can (like all other members of the band) to make things better. When you go to the shows and watch the band play you can see how they feel about it (unless you're too drunk or too busy checking with your expectations).
But anyway – and this is personal opinion - you’re only playing the reasonable one here. I don’t believe a word of this petty pretence. Your agenda is to be the master of opinion regarding The Sisters. You (and your friends) want to make the band feel they have an unusually large problem and you want to convince everybody else to think so too, to listen sharply, to find fault with them and reason to be disappointed with an experience that didn’t bear any disappointment in the encounter at all. I’ve been watching this nasty strategy for years. And I wouldn’t wonder, if you were one of those who on Wikipedia deny that band a continued existence or who shout “buuh� at the gigs when they dare to perform tracks that Wayne was involved writing. Yeah, that is the ugly face of the so-called die-hard Sisters scene I have seen ... all the time, again and again, and again. And now, The Sisters's sound is bad again, the guitars ... bla ... phh. Anal. Yeah, anal in the will to convince the world that The Sisters’ are one band to find fault with, most importantly.
Did they have some success recently? Have the opinions changed on the various internet platforms? Was the majority happy with what they’ve heard and seen? Too often the word “great� for your taste?!<<<

Yggdrasil wrote:

Being645 wrote: and I still hear you all scream with satisfaction in the vids of the second London night and at other gigs ... and what comes now, only few weeks later, in return?

Eh? One is not allowed to enjoy a concert, and still have opinions about it?

>>> Another imputation. Set as a question, but you know what you're doing to me, aren't you? You paint me as someone - again - who won't allow for other people's opinion. Because I've reminded you of how people actually reacted to the bad, bad sound of The Sisters during this tour. What a sad trick. <<<

Yggdrasil wrote:

Being645 wrote: Bla, the sound is bad. Bla, Von's voice is broken, Bla, the guitars are weak and boring ...

All true. Is all this unimportant to you? Speaking of being a fan, and all that. In my mind, it means someone who cares deeply about a band. I do. That's why I also have opinions about them, and I wish they would always shine as brightly as possible.

>>> True in your opinion and even more in your will. And in my opinion, this is the standard bla coming up every year and no, I do not believe that every human has good intentions ... wishing the band to shine as bright as ... Emma, possibly?! Gush ...<<<

Yggdrasil wrote:

Being645 wrote: bla any other old act is miles better than that ...

Now, nobody said anything of the sort, did they?

>>> 'Oh you are the defender of the true, now. They will all be your friends, believe me, or brothers in sin at least, but hell, that's cool, isn't it.<<<

Yggdrasil wrote:But most (all) other bands have better live sound than the Sisters have, which is a shame.

>>> That is just an (untrue) assertion. And a shame, indeed, how you try to present it as the eternal truth to push through your views as the final opinion.<<<

Yggdrasil wrote:

Being645 wrote: bla, bla, bla ... each year the same, while The Sisters are doing the best they can to please you ...

I sincerely hope that Von NEVER does anything to "please" us fans, ever.

>>> Now you contradict yourself, entirely. And your motives are obvious, but I spare you the shame to name them. Face yourself.<<<

Yggdrasil wrote:I prefer artistic integrity and vision, no matter how idiosyncratic (or rather, the more the better).

>>> That is just another trick of yours. As if anyone would prefer anything else. Did you forget you are here to complain about the oh so problematic Sisters sound? How comes?.<<<

Yggdrasil wrote:

Being645 wrote: phh. I feel very, very sorry for your very little ears and little hearts.
Anyway, you might wholeheartedly go on now with that idiocy. I won't look again at this sad treat.

You really make an effort to make friends and listen to other people, don't you? At least I'm glad we have your permission to keep discussing. Thank you.

Everybody to their liking. - THIS and nothing else is btw, my personal position on other people's opinions and choices, here and in life in general, and I won't take any further attacks and misinterpretations of my person in this forum. Everyone who's ever followed my posts knows it perfectly well, and still I'm always accused of being whatever a blindfolded zero. I AM FED UP WITH THAT DELIBERATE BULLYING ON A PERSONAL LEVEL AND WON'T TAKE IT ANY LONGER !!!


AND, dear Yggdrasil ... only two months ago you came up with The Sisters' Live Sound already ... obviously not to your satisfaction...

https://www.myheartland.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=27305

The man is 60 (not 20 or 30) and his voice has naturally deteriorated over the last 25 years or so. But you people go on about it like time has stood still. Blaming changes of equipment or even a lack of a record deal (!)
The live sound is built around his vocal abilities. Sure, other factors can come into play like the size/shape of the venue and the sound system but the main consideration is his vocals. Turn the guitars/bass/drum etc up runs the risk of not being able to hear him at all because he sings so quietly. I'm not particularly thrilled about it either but to me it's all about the songs.

I don't know about anyone else, but my ears aren't as good as they were in 1993.

@Sam donut:
Lucky, the older we get the less we hear.

Planet Dave wrote:http://www.thesistersofmercy.com/tech/outboard.htm

AE: "Microphones: for live work I have a Samson wireless unit. The transmitter has a Shure SM58-type capsule, but we've had problems getting the particular high frequencies and transparency required, so this isn't the regular capsule. Even now, we have to choose between being loud (and my vocal sounding horrible) or being quiet (and my vocal sounding like it should). The problem is not feedback onstage - it's feedback between the microphone and the main PA speakers when the high end is boosted sufficiently to convey the nuance and intended perceived pitch of the vocal. At the moment we're pursuing the quieter-but-better policy. I was getting too tired of having a boomy and muddy vocal which I couldn't hear above the guitars anyway. The overall live experience might have been more powerful, but the me part of it it wasn't quite me.

No offence to Big Pete the mixing engineer: it's my fault for not being able to sing as loudly as anybody else."

Thanks Dave.

So it is the voice after all.
Case closed?

Pista wrote:So it is the voice after all.
Case closed?

Listening to recent high-quality recordings of Alice especially, it's obvious Von is having big problems getting any power at all into the low register parts, so you might be right.

He sounds fine at other times, so perhaps it's certain specific ranges ha has problems with, and not others as much.

But I'm still skeptical as to how a low voice volume can affect the overall live sound to such an extent, as many other bands are able to even whisper while playing much louder – but I guess I'll have to ask professional PA people what they think.

The stuff on the site about his voice is about 20 years old though no?

Some chest voice at lower volume but no real head voice if you want to be more specific. Hence, growling but no howling.

ruffers wrote:The stuff on the site about his voice is about 20 years old though no?

So, by my reckoning, he's about 300,000 marlboros further on.

Pista wrote:

ruffers wrote:The stuff on the site about his voice is about 20 years old though no?

So, by my reckoning, he's about 300,000 marlboros further on.

COPD? Not very likely, since that doesn't affect the vocal chords.

Being645 wrote: it's me who is regularly named and shamed

you shouldn't show too much sympathy for me in order not to lose points on the die-hard real fan board. I know it and you know it and everybody knows it

you’re only playing the reasonable one here. I don’t believe a word of this petty pretence. Your agenda is to be the master of opinion regarding The Sisters.

I’ve been watching this nasty strategy for years. And I wouldn’t wonder, if you were one of those who on Wikipedia deny that band a continued existence

your motives are obvious, but I spare you the shame to name them. Face yourself.

>>> That is just another trick of yours.

b]

Yikes, my nefarious agenda has been exposed!


Seriously – it's not my intention to belittle your opinions.

Let's just agree to disagree, shall we?

Bartek wrote:@Sam donut:
Lucky, the older we get the less we hear.

Pardon?

Yggdrasil wrote:[...]

Seriously – it's not my intention to belittle your opinions.

Let's just agree to disagree, shall we?

I appreciate your suggestion. But for sure not now just like so.
One day, maybe, when it's proved that there's meaning in your words.

ruffers wrote:The stuff on the site about his voice is about 20 years old though no?

That's my impression as well, as is most of the info about their tech in general. Hard to tell what's updated and what isn't though.

if only we all wrote: Let's just agree to disagree

after all, opinions are like arseholes, we're all attached to our own but not everybody wants yours ramming down their throats.

personally i myself am the very epitome of a ZEALOUS LOVING THE SISTERS UNCONDITIONALLY FANATICAL BASTARD.

Here on WhizzWorld -population 1, twinned with Fastville (Czech Republic) and The People's Republic ov Speeding-on-the-Weekend is a 20 sovereign superkings state which is singular in that it is both an anarcho-syndicalist commune & a totallitarian gothic dictatorship) it is always Made Glorious Summer in the year of 1985 and Somewhere, Ever And Always, till the End of the End of Time.

MrSheehan/ Starling and Ofra Haza -Our Beloved Dead- are eternal band members existing as Beings of of Pure Energy on The Doktors Hard Drive.

A fat happy healthy Mr Denbigh is striding up that mexican pyramid t'ard a farting dawn von trumpet whilst Si-multaneously nursing alongside Ravey AND supporting Ghost Dance with The Batfish Boys. All the guitarists and all the marching men are Tripping the Light Fantastic and IT IS ALWAYS AFTERHOURS.

Vons officially pension-aged vcocal chords are vibrantly resonating rising and reverberating at a frequency too low for idiots to hear (version) and there is NOTHING but the knife to live for.

The Girls/ Captains of Industry/ The Industrial Groove Machine/ The Pearman-Taylor Overdrive/ Near Meth Experience/ The Sisterhood but most of all

***THE SISTERS OF MERCY****

are constantly writing recording releasing and performing an endless stream of Utterly Bastard Groovy tunes ON VINYL of which -because everything is possible in an infinite universe- the AA-side to every 12" is Heartland / Gimme Shelter.

if its not like that where you live then move.

LONG LIVE GONZOID AMPHETAMINE FILTH

^ eloquent, articulate and frankly glorious prose, deserving of a more appropriate home than this thread.

Glad we got that sorted

markfiend wrote:Even the complaints that the Sisters aren't as good as they used to be aren't as good as they used to be.