Heartland

Interesting guesswork, and yes it's very "in your face!" to write & perform dozens of new songs knowing they'd make for great album releases if that contract was still binding...

I don't know what to think about this now. There are plenty of sources on the web that confidently proclaim the contract was cancelled in 1997, such as this one - http://alt77.com/dont-hold-your-breath- ... cy-album/

but they could be wrong...

If I've learnt one thing from dealing with corporate legal departments it's that often the legal state of something is unclear but the cost of finding out one way or another is a large amount of lawyer fees and large chunks of your time f**king around with said lawyers.

MrChris wrote: ↑18 Nov 2022, 15:06 I don't know what to think about this now. There are plenty of sources on the web that confidently proclaim the contract was cancelled in 1997, such as this one - http://alt77.com/dont-hold-your-breath- ... cy-album/

but they could be wrong...

I would wonder if the source for all these confident proclamations is ultimately Eldritch himself. The line in that alt77 article:

Warner finally called it quits on trying to reach a compromise with Eldritch in 1997 and the band was released from their contract.

could easily be just "received wisdom" by 2017, the date it's from.

sultan2075 wrote: ↑18 Nov 2022, 13:37 "the great lesson of Andrew Eldritch is don't stop taking speed. Once you do, your work ethic goes to hell and you start to look like a goblin."

I love that

So therefore just to clarify.... The Sisters had a 5 album contract:

They released Floodland, Vision Thing, and two compilation albums under WEA.

Do you think that WEA were happy with two compilation albums? Probably not.

In the meantime AE is angry that Vision Thing does nt sell which prevents him becoming a rock stadium star in the US

Blames the record company for not pushing it enough and petulantely (there are enough interviews to back this up) decides f**k you then. Decides to approach a more techno orientated music style: See Utah Saints etc... record company says thats not really what we signed you for. AE gives them SSV "Happy now?"..... WEA "no".

Fastforward to 2022..... and here WE(A) are still waiting for the next one to arrive.

(Its like a goth version of The Great Rock n Roll Swindle....... everybody is unsatisfied)

My recollection is that there were 2 or 3 albums left on the contract at the time of SSV. I also distinctly remember an interview with Von about the time of Overbombing where he was talking about releasing one more "normal" LP, and then his next release would be "Metal Machine Music Part 2", i.e. "the album that gets me out of my contract" (probably not his exact words, but the sense is correct as I remember it). If I have the timing right, then SSV was premeditated for a good while.

There was a change of management at Warners in the early 90s which probably factors into the deterioration of the relationship, and there's also the whole Public Enemy fiasco to consider.

My reading of the whole thing is that by the time of SSV, Warners very probably wanted rid of Von as well, and were happy to accept SSV as a symbolic tradeoff.

The quality of this wild tangent is up there with HL's best. Most likely scenario - the contract is actually long since binned, Von simply can't be arsed making and releasing a record, and everyone is barking yet again up a non-existent tree. Imagine that.

Planet Dave wrote: ↑18 Nov 2022, 18:11 Most likely scenario - the contract is actually long since binned, Von simply can't be arsed making and releasing a record, and everyone is barking yet again up a non-existent tree.

Is it really though? If he cared that little, would he really still be touring? Would he be writing and singing new songs? I don't buy it. I find it easier to believe there's something he's not saying because he doesn't think anyone else needs to know.

My best guess is that, as someone else said, trying to do a recording or publishing deal might risk waking a sleeping dragon. Just think about the verbal gymnastics that Ben (and Chris C in his day) have been obliged to do in interviews in order to talk their way around this issue. They're not idiots, and they know the score. There is never going to be a new album. Von has figured out that actually saying that though might kill the golden goose.

Implying he might one day is basically playing the 'treat em mean, keep em keen" card with his audience.

We're all in an abusive relationship with the Sisters of Mercy. They love us really, despite being mean to us and if we just love them hard enough, they'll give us what we've always wanted.

Todashi wrote: ↑18 Nov 2022, 19:24We're all in an abusive relationship with the Sisters of Mercy.

Really? Show me on the doll.

Where was that old quote from the record company by the way, something along the line of "we're glad to see mr. Eldritch hasn't lost his sense of humour". I thought I had all GPS issues in a box here, but see it as increasingly likely they have since long gone to recycling
A few years ago I remember there were scans of all GPS issues here on HL. Because that quote just sounds like something that would have been in the GPS...

markfiend wrote: ↑18 Nov 2022, 15:56

sultan2075 wrote: ↑18 Nov 2022, 13:37 "the great lesson of Andrew Eldritch is don't stop taking speed. Once you do, your work ethic goes to hell and you start to look like a goblin."

I love that

`its a Universal Truth.

Todashi wrote: ↑18 Nov 2022, 19:24

Planet Dave wrote: ↑18 Nov 2022, 18:11 Most likely scenario - the contract is actually long since binned, Von simply can't be arsed making and releasing a record, and everyone is barking yet again up a non-existent tree.

Is it really though? If he cared that little, would he really still be touring? Would he be writing and singing new songs? I don't buy it. I find it easier to believe there's something he's not saying because he doesn't think anyone else needs to know.

My best guess is that, as someone else said, trying to do a recording or publishing deal might risk waking a sleeping dragon. Just think about the verbal gymnastics that Ben (and Chris C in his day) have been obliged to do in interviews in order to talk their way around this issue. They're not idiots, and they know the score. There is never going to be a new album. Von has figured out that actually saying that though might kill the golden goose.

Implying he might one day is basically playing the 'treat em mean, keep em keen" card with his audience.

We're all in an abusive relationship with the Sisters of Mercy. They love us really, despite being mean to us and if we just love them hard enough, they'll give us what we've always wanted.

Planet Dave wrote: ↑18 Nov 2022, 19:28

Todashi wrote: ↑18 Nov 2022, 19:24We're all in an abusive relationship with the Sisters of Mercy.

Really? Show me on the doll.

euphoria wrote: ↑18 Nov 2022, 22:11 Where was that old quote from the record company by the way, something along the line of "we're glad to see mr. Eldritch hasn't lost his sense of humour".

Found it, at last! Apparently, it was originally published in NME & Melody Maker, along with UTR #13, 1995.

Disagreements between Andrew Eldritch and his record company, the Warners subsidiary East West, have once again spilled into the public arena following an exchange of statements widely reported in the British music press. Both the NME and Melody Maker carried stories in their August 12th issues containing references to a statement purporting to originate from Eldritch himself... The full statement obtained by UTR reads as follows:

"Mr Andrew Eldritch has "sort of fired himself" as singer with the Sisters Of Mercy, legendary techno rock gods. Strangely enough, Mr Eldritch will continue to write and produce Sisters records, just as he will continue to front the band's live appearances ("coming with dreadful inevitability to a stadium near you - as soon as we can be bothered"). However, Mr Eldritch's intention to refrain from singing on Sisters records means that the band is effectively free from their contract with East West.

Both papers also reported East-West's reaction verbatim: "Andrew Eldritch and The Sisters Of Mercy remain signed to an exclusive recording contract with Warner Music UK Ltd. Accordingly, he is not free to offer his nor The Sisters Of Mercy's services to any third party at present. We're glad to see he hasn't lost his sense of humour." Eldritch's reaction to his reply was a little more forthright; "Not true at all ... if I'm not a featured artist on a Sisters record, then it can go out on whatever label it damn well pleases."

Some further SSV quotes:

"My contract with East West prevents me from being a featured artist in any other arena, and East West are prepared to spend a lot of money in court to uphold their belief that the contract is still in force. Even if I had a pathological need to openly perform on records, I would need an awful lot of money to assert my freedom. I have neither, so it's not much of an issue." - Von, Virgin.net, 97

"[The EastWest strike was] finally resolved in 1997 ("the outside lawyers they employed were percentage players and willing to negotiate. I'm not a percentage player, so we delivered them a crock of s**t that wasn't a Sisters album, and which they haven't released - and we walked"). - Feb 2001

"Because of those sampled vocals, East West bought the record (without having heard it) and agreed to release Andrew from his recording contract... Despite their threats to sue Andrew for not delivering any Sisters records, they were perhaps more worried that a judge would regard a seven year strike as evidence that the contract was dead anyway. So they took what they could get. Andrew has neither the money nor the desire to spend years on a court case, and he was happy to accept immediate freedom on these particular terms..."

"How desperate must the corporation be? Desperate enough to try and force an artist to record with threats of massive litigation after a seven-year impasse, expecting him to make a good record while witholding a fortune [£75,000] in back-royalties, and then desperate enough to pay "a very large amount" for a record which the artist neither wrote, nor composed, nor arranged, nor produced, whose content is merely a puerile attempt to be as offensive as possible? Go figure." - BaxCorp bulletin, 23th Oct, 1997


"Andrew Eldritch kept the Sisters alive until their last studio recording in 1993. Now Andrew is back with this one time only, side project SSV. Musically this album is quite removed from the Sister's sound ~it's techno!!" - Warner Music Canada, SSV press release

"We toured [in the summer of 1997] because there's still a chance that (former label) East West might stupidly try and put out a record that I recently delivered to them under a different name... Basically SSV is the record that frees me from my contract with East West. I've been on strike for the last seven years and now we have to go out there as the Sisters and persuade people that SSV means nothing and shouldn't be in any way considered a Sisters endorsed product. SSV is alarmingly dull and no-one should go near it!" - Von, Metal Hammer

"There will be a number of club remixes available for the first single (tbd) and will be available through Special imports later this year." - Warner Music Canada, SSV press release

"We gather that East West have remixed two tracks, but they're not allowed to remix any more... Some US independent distributor (previous candidates need not apply) might soon be distributing a much better version of the SSV album, with drums." - Official site


"Because it's been years since we last released any new material (1990's Vision Thing) I think we owe it to people to do a big tour and release some major records. So as soon as we're contractually able to put my voice on a record, which should be soon, we will be releasing a number of independent singles in the spring." - Von, Metal Hammer

"I did plan to bring out a few indie singles. Our guitarist Adam spent a year not recording one called Summer, as he'd gone off the idea. He's since seen the light, but by the time he 'fessed up it was too late. - Jan 2001

"If someone gave me the money tomorrow, I could finish an album in three months. Well, maybe four. We tinker about in the studio but we haven't really had any reason to put anything out. The industry is in a bit of a mess. The majors can't afford the dosh - if I'm going to knuckle down and finish an album I want paying for it up front - and I've got a very fixed idea in my head of the price I want. And if its not met, they don't get it." - Feb 2001

@ Copper - good find. Thanks for digging.

" "Andrew Eldritch kept the Sisters alive until their last studio recording in 1993. Now Andrew is back with this one time only, side project SSV. Musically this album is quite removed from the Sister's sound ~it's techno!!" - Warner Music Canada, SSV press release "

That would suggest that SSV was n't even considered a Sisters recording. Was AE contracted or contracted as TSOM.?

Todashi wrote: ↑18 Nov 2022, 19:24 Just think about the verbal gymnastics that Ben (and Chris C in his day) have been obliged to do in interviews in order to talk their way around this issue.

OK I hope Chris won't mind me saying this but one time a few years back I directly asked him about the "no new Sisters record" thing. I can't remember exactly verbatim what he said, but it was along the lines of "with Eldritch you should never say never." Whatever that's worth.

I can't believe the wholesale rejection of Occam's Razor in this thread. Between the alternatives of "Von is still secretly under contract, but he hasn't told anyone, Warners Music hasn't told anyone, and it hasn't leaked" and "Von doesn't want to release a record", I'm going with the simpler one.

Eldritch's razor.

Dr. Moody wrote: ↑23 Nov 2022, 10:24 Eldritch's razor.

Dawnrazor?

GC wrote: ↑23 Nov 2022, 13:06

Dr. Moody wrote: ↑23 Nov 2022, 10:24 Eldritch's razor.

Dawnrazor?

The razor bites...

H. Blackrose wrote: ↑23 Nov 2022, 04:24 I can't believe the wholesale rejection of Occam's Razor in this thread. Between the alternatives of "Von is still secretly under contract, but he hasn't told anyone, Warners Music hasn't told anyone, and it hasn't leaked" and "Von doesn't want to release a record", I'm going with the simpler one.

I think the important qualifier in Occam's Razor is that one should never multiply entities needlessly. It's certainly plausible that if this is the case, it wouldn't leak because the record label doesn't care enough to leak it, and Von is the only other person who could leak it. What are the alternatives? You could try to go the Prince protest-route, but I don't think that would work in this case (nor would it accord with the impression I have of Von's character), or you can present it publicly as a stubborn matter of principle. The best part about "the record industry is a shambles" arguments is that they have the virtue of being true.

“'I did that' says my memory. I couldn’t have done that – says my pride, and stands its ground. Finally, memory gives in" (Beyond Good and Evil §68).

For what it's worth, I have always accepted the stubbornness explanation. But this too has a whiff of plausibility.

Correct me if i understand something wrong or not. Let's assume that there is around a Billionaire that can pay anything that he wants to get. For example someone like Elon Musk that woke up a morning and said "I would really enjoy to get Twitter!" And after a few months he got it as he wished. A person like that can get a Sisters record to do as he/she likes with that only because he/sha can pays that price that has in his mind that it worths for? Did i get it right?

markfiend wrote: ↑21 Nov 2022, 10:54

Todashi wrote: ↑18 Nov 2022, 19:24 Just think about the verbal gymnastics that Ben (and Chris C in his day) have been obliged to do in interviews in order to talk their way around this issue.

OK I hope Chris won't mind me saying this but one time a few years back I directly asked him about the "no new Sisters record" thing. I can't remember exactly verbatim what he said, but it was along the lines of "with Eldritch you should never say never." Whatever that's worth.

He did a relatively lengthy interview recently which contained something of a post-mortem of his time in the SIsters, and he did actually confirm that work had at once stage commenced on a reasonably serious attempt at recording something releasable. Whether that means they were working on demos or got beyond that is unclear, but it's possible that in your above quote he was simply been referring to the fact that some new recorded material does exist, and may feasibly released some day.