if ever a true word spoken! fukcing brilliant!
thank you @FMAMMY
2023-05-10. The Fillmore DC, Silver Spring, MD
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MadameButterfly
- HL's mystical safekeeper
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thank you @FMAMMY
it's all about circles and spirals
that ongoing eternity
that ongoing eternity
Lots of fascinating questions around this first show.
Look, you still get the undeniable charisma of the whole enterprise, don't you? There's definitely that innate "Sisters-ness" that transcends the confusing parts. Some would say that the confusing parts may even be the most important parts, but this is a million different bands to a million different people. I personally find it too hard to be totally dismissive.
I guess my thoughts, at this early stage, are that it's too early to tell whether this is indicative of anything more than just a confluence of factors that particular night.
Ben bringing in a bit more baritone definitely seems to be a premeditated, rehearsed part of the show. Generally speaking, I get the impression that the band is directed to play to the backing tracks at all costs, regardless of what else is happening, so it's possible they've decided between themselves to have Ben do a bit more singing on the low end just to fill out the sound and pick up the parts where Andrew isn't heard - whatever the reason.
I really prefer to refrain from commenting on Andrew's voice itself, because it's clear to me (and probably should be to everyone at this point) that regardless of how he sounds, it's never been part of the plan to try and sound like a record, or another gig, or another point in time, or anybody else. The vocal performance is supposed to be a representation of who he is that night, and I have found much more joy in accepting that since 1990 he's always taken a fluid, freewheeling approach to live performance (this may be why he needs the rest of the band to stick rather more rigidly to the script, and get their ideas in at rehearsal). I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's disappointment and I'm not trying to excuse the fact that sometimes his voice is not very strong or very audible, but I do think it's still possible to look and feel like a great Sisters gig when that's the case.
The only other comment I'd offer about his vocals, really, is that there's always going to be decisions made around how to mitigate the effects of aging, and those decisions are going to be informed by different considerations on different gigs/tours.
I saw Ronnie James Dio in about 2003 or something, and I think he has the greatest rock and roll voice of all time, but at that time and at that age, he was dropping an octave, they were playing slower, and he was being really tactical about when to absolutely belt it to ensure that he always nailed it. These were clearly decisions made to preserve the overall mood of the songs and what he wanted them to feel like and represent on the night, within the limitations of his voice. Saw him again with Heaven And Hell a few years later and he was singing higher, louder, and within reason, more like the records. That was a bigger budget tour with more rest days, and more overall investment made in opportunities to look after and care for the voice. Different circumstances call for different singing strategies, y'know? But I never wanted him to sound like the records, I wanted him to sound like the guy who made those records 30 years ago, and was saying something about them now.
I feel very strongly similar with the Sisters. There have been gigs where his voice is quite blown out. The quality of the footage and live mixes certainly exacerbate the perceived quality issues in most cases, but I also think: he's often attracting the most complaints when he is using the vocal techniques that used to work. That gravelly singing he does that comes out all distorted and gross sounding on camera phones? That's him coming at it from the same spot in his throat that his 'classic' baritone comes from, slightly readjusted. Those times where he's rather too quiet and whispery? Same vocal techniques as the more soulful parts of Floodland, within a slightly diminished capacity. It's not like he's completely destroyed his voice, he's just making choices and taking different approaches, sometimes rehearsed and sometimes on the fly. There is not a biologically male singer in his 60s who does not have to make adjustments, and the real joy of the last few years for me has been the tangible sense of inspiration with which he's singing. So I really truly don't mind when his voice is "off", because I don't think there's a well-calibrated definition of "on". It's just Andrew Eldritch, singing.
I suppose my overall point, after all that, is: if there's a deliberate mixing choice to conceal the limitations of his voice, so be it. If it's a house engineer not doing their job properly, so be it (and Eldritch has alluded to the relatively low budget nature of this tour, so it's quite possible that they're relying on the venues more). If they've moved more of Ben's vocal parts into the lower end to bolster Eldritch's own singing, so be it. I still looked at all this footage going "they are f*ckin' cool though, and these are cool arrangements".
Look, you still get the undeniable charisma of the whole enterprise, don't you? There's definitely that innate "Sisters-ness" that transcends the confusing parts. Some would say that the confusing parts may even be the most important parts, but this is a million different bands to a million different people. I personally find it too hard to be totally dismissive.
I guess my thoughts, at this early stage, are that it's too early to tell whether this is indicative of anything more than just a confluence of factors that particular night.
Ben bringing in a bit more baritone definitely seems to be a premeditated, rehearsed part of the show. Generally speaking, I get the impression that the band is directed to play to the backing tracks at all costs, regardless of what else is happening, so it's possible they've decided between themselves to have Ben do a bit more singing on the low end just to fill out the sound and pick up the parts where Andrew isn't heard - whatever the reason.
I really prefer to refrain from commenting on Andrew's voice itself, because it's clear to me (and probably should be to everyone at this point) that regardless of how he sounds, it's never been part of the plan to try and sound like a record, or another gig, or another point in time, or anybody else. The vocal performance is supposed to be a representation of who he is that night, and I have found much more joy in accepting that since 1990 he's always taken a fluid, freewheeling approach to live performance (this may be why he needs the rest of the band to stick rather more rigidly to the script, and get their ideas in at rehearsal). I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's disappointment and I'm not trying to excuse the fact that sometimes his voice is not very strong or very audible, but I do think it's still possible to look and feel like a great Sisters gig when that's the case.
The only other comment I'd offer about his vocals, really, is that there's always going to be decisions made around how to mitigate the effects of aging, and those decisions are going to be informed by different considerations on different gigs/tours.
I saw Ronnie James Dio in about 2003 or something, and I think he has the greatest rock and roll voice of all time, but at that time and at that age, he was dropping an octave, they were playing slower, and he was being really tactical about when to absolutely belt it to ensure that he always nailed it. These were clearly decisions made to preserve the overall mood of the songs and what he wanted them to feel like and represent on the night, within the limitations of his voice. Saw him again with Heaven And Hell a few years later and he was singing higher, louder, and within reason, more like the records. That was a bigger budget tour with more rest days, and more overall investment made in opportunities to look after and care for the voice. Different circumstances call for different singing strategies, y'know? But I never wanted him to sound like the records, I wanted him to sound like the guy who made those records 30 years ago, and was saying something about them now.
I feel very strongly similar with the Sisters. There have been gigs where his voice is quite blown out. The quality of the footage and live mixes certainly exacerbate the perceived quality issues in most cases, but I also think: he's often attracting the most complaints when he is using the vocal techniques that used to work. That gravelly singing he does that comes out all distorted and gross sounding on camera phones? That's him coming at it from the same spot in his throat that his 'classic' baritone comes from, slightly readjusted. Those times where he's rather too quiet and whispery? Same vocal techniques as the more soulful parts of Floodland, within a slightly diminished capacity. It's not like he's completely destroyed his voice, he's just making choices and taking different approaches, sometimes rehearsed and sometimes on the fly. There is not a biologically male singer in his 60s who does not have to make adjustments, and the real joy of the last few years for me has been the tangible sense of inspiration with which he's singing. So I really truly don't mind when his voice is "off", because I don't think there's a well-calibrated definition of "on". It's just Andrew Eldritch, singing.
I suppose my overall point, after all that, is: if there's a deliberate mixing choice to conceal the limitations of his voice, so be it. If it's a house engineer not doing their job properly, so be it (and Eldritch has alluded to the relatively low budget nature of this tour, so it's quite possible that they're relying on the venues more). If they've moved more of Ben's vocal parts into the lower end to bolster Eldritch's own singing, so be it. I still looked at all this footage going "they are f*ckin' cool though, and these are cool arrangements".
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sultan2075
- Overbomber
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Yeah, I don't disagree with you at all, actually. Despite (or because?) of the vocal issues, I had a blast and thought it was a great show - not just a great Sisters show but a great show period. So did my friends, one of whom was a longtime fan seeing the band for the first time. And I know other commenters have claimed to hear people complaining, demanding a refund, etc., after the gig, but that's not what I saw or heard - everyone was on a high filing out of the Fillmore, and all the nearby bars were quickly overwhelmed, which I'd not expect from a disappointed crowd.
--
The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
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Planet Dave
- Underneath the Rock
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Full show up on YT (audio only) from the dude who filmed Marian. Old skool bootleg vibes abound (ie sounds like it was recorded from the toilet of the building next door) but as always it's 100% better than any bootleg I ever made so gets my total respect and gratitude 
cheers
cheers 'What a heavy load Einstein must have had. Morons everywhere.'
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Being645
- Wiki Wizard
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- Location: reconstruction status: whatever the f**k
Oh hey, no problem to convert that int some mp3 and give it a listen without having to look at YT all the time ... 
... curious now... ...
Thanks for the hint and lots of thanks to the uploader ... ...
... curious now... ...Thanks for the hint and lots of thanks to the uploader ...
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Planet Dave
- Underneath the Rock
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Indeed
you'll be unsurprised to know it's already burning its way onto a cd here 
'What a heavy load Einstein must have had. Morons everywhere.'
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Being645
- Wiki Wizard
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... so we can reckon on some lovely coverart this weekend ...Planet Dave wrote: ↑13 May 2023, 12:24Indeed
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Planet Dave
- Underneath the Rock
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Being645 wrote: ↑13 May 2023, 14:06... so we can reckon on some lovely coverart this weekend ...Planet Dave wrote: ↑13 May 2023, 12:24Indeed
reckon away! More of a first draft than anything else, but still...https://mega.nz/folder/2rYH0TLI#8Qldn6MrXOg_XkPkp_g-2A
I'd put the audio rip in Sharing but tbh I'm not sure the yt ripper I tend to use out of convenience is particularly good, I'd guess someone could do a better job?
'What a heavy load Einstein must have had. Morons everywhere.'
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Being645
- Wiki Wizard
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You want MP3, FLAC or WAV? ...Planet Dave wrote: ↑13 May 2023, 14:42
https://mega.nz/folder/2rYH0TLI#8Qldn6MrXOg_XkPkp_g-2A
I'd put the audio rip in Sharing but tbh I'm not sure the yt ripper I tend to use out of convenience is particularly good, I'd guess someone could do a better job?
...First draft ...
... please ... I'll take the inlay as the front cover and link you to two pics for the insert ... ...https://sisterswiki.org/File:The_Fillmo ... Spring.jpg
https://sisterswiki.org/File:The_Sister ... y_2023.jpg
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Planet Dave
- Underneath the Rock
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Being645 wrote: ↑13 May 2023, 15:20You want MP3, FLAC or WAV? ...Planet Dave wrote: ↑13 May 2023, 14:42
https://mega.nz/folder/2rYH0TLI#8Qldn6MrXOg_XkPkp_g-2A
I'd put the audio rip in Sharing but tbh I'm not sure the yt ripper I tend to use out of convenience is particularly good, I'd guess someone could do a better job?
First draft ...
https://sisterswiki.org/File:The_Fillmo ... Spring.jpg
https://sisterswiki.org/File:The_Sister ... y_2023.jpg
pm incoming ... and now updated with your requests 'What a heavy load Einstein must have had. Morons everywhere.'
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Insomniaphd
- Road Kill
- Posts: 11
- Joined: 14 May 2023, 17:16
Lots of good points in that post. I was at the Silver Spring, Maryland, show. I've been a huge fan since the 1990s, but for various reasons (including living in Australia for a long time) I was never in the right place at the right time before now to see the Sisters. I really enjoyed the Silver Spring show. I went in knowing that there have been mixed reviews of Sisters shows, but I still really enjoyed the experience.Fallon wrote: ↑13 May 2023, 02:57
Look, you still get the undeniable charisma of the whole enterprise, don't you? There's definitely that innate "Sisters-ness" that transcends the confusing parts. Some would say that the confusing parts may even be the most important parts, but this is a million different bands to a million different people. I personally find it too hard to be totally dismissive.
...
I suppose my overall point, after all that, is: if there's a deliberate mixing choice to conceal the limitations of his voice, so be it. If it's a house engineer not doing their job properly, so be it (and Eldritch has alluded to the relatively low budget nature of this tour, so it's quite possible that they're relying on the venues more). If they've moved more of Ben's vocal parts into the lower end to bolster Eldritch's own singing, so be it. I still looked at all this footage going "they are f*ckin' cool though, and these are cool arrangements".
Interesting to see video from Sick New World just a few days later in which Von sounds great. So either he had a cold or vocal problem at this gig and was trying to preserve his voice while still delivering a show, or there genuinely was some sort of f**k up at the sound desk.
I think it was the jet lag..they travel 2 days prior the first show.. now Von is better as we saw in the festival videosTodashi wrote: ↑14 May 2023, 18:03 Interesting to see video from Sick New World just a few days later in which Von sounds great. So either he had a cold or vocal problem at this gig and was trying to preserve his voice while still delivering a show, or there genuinely was some sort of f**k up at the sound desk.
2023: Los Ángeles,Las Vegas, Londonx2, Valencia Madrid, Lisbon, Porto, Bilbao
2024: Gent- Eindhoven - Lokeren - Madrid
2025: London x2
2024: Gent- Eindhoven - Lokeren - Madrid
2025: London x2
Here's an interesting point of view. BTW, here you can even hear 
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sultan2075
- Overbomber
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Photos here (and short review): https://parklifedc.com/2023/05/15/snaps ... g-5-10-23/
--
The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
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Being645
- Wiki Wizard
- Posts: 15270
- Joined: 09 Apr 2009, 12:54
- Location: reconstruction status: whatever the f**k
Thank you for the hint ...sultan2075 wrote: ↑16 May 2023, 01:50 Photos here (and short review): https://parklifedc.com/2023/05/15/snaps ... g-5-10-23/
..., there are some really hi-res photos there, and also some in b/w ... nice ... ...-
Insomniaphd
- Road Kill
- Posts: 11
- Joined: 14 May 2023, 17:16
I was at Silver Spring, but also thought some of the Sick New World and Brooklyn Bowl (Vegas) videos looked like a better performance. Hopefully, things keep heading up from here...dtsom wrote: ↑14 May 2023, 18:28I think it was the jet lag..they travel 2 days prior the first show.. now Von is better as we saw in the festival videosTodashi wrote: ↑14 May 2023, 18:03 Interesting to see video from Sick New World just a few days later in which Von sounds great. So either he had a cold or vocal problem at this gig and was trying to preserve his voice while still delivering a show, or there genuinely was some sort of f**k up at the sound desk.