Heartland

How could anybody who have never played guitar love Sisters

mugabe wrote:You confuse the concepts of speaking a language and being part of a society with shared cultural norms.

That's a good point, but what I aimed at was feeling the language, as part of yourself, not just being able to speak it.

All language is acquired, and mostly from people in your surroundings. Being brought up with it makes no difference.

I think it does. First language acquisition is not based on any previous knowledge of a language, whereas second language acquisition is, and I think this does make a big difference.
That's why I think your question "what if your family is bilingual?" was a really good one.

You also seem to make the false assumption that all non-native English speakers construct sentences in their native language first and then translate them into English.

No, that wouldn't be possible. Speaking a foreign language fluently wouldn't be possible at all if you translated things in your head. That only happens at pre-intermediate level, as far as I remember.

i found punning on check out ( to view ) and checkout (to buy) was a lost opportunity. Sadly, there are many such cases

I want my Mum .......

Red Sunsets wrote:How could anybody who have never played guitar love Sisters

How could anybody who have never played bass on Floodland understand that album

Personally, with the exception of Body Electric 84 and Lucretia, all official releases after Temple Of Love have been disappointing and lacking that certain je ne sais quoi required to get me up and shaking my ass. You can take solace in his lyrics, if that's your thing, but a few cliched drugs references and some half-baked Greenham Common politics doesn't make him a visionary in my book.

@Khepri, Emma & Mugabe

Regional variations are a problem for native English speakers as well, of course. I never understood the double meaning in 'Cheggars plays pop' until I left University and started mingling properly with real Leeds folk.

whats a 'leeds'?

ryan_w_0000 wrote:whats a 'leeds'?

I think it has to be a drug but which one...?
Every time Sisters use a weird word in their lyrics, it's a name of a drug - that's MyHeartland has taught to me

khepri II wrote:i found punning on check out ( to view ) and checkout (to buy) was a lost opportunity. Sadly, there are many such cases

The failure of your pun may be owing to the fact that "checkout" is, in fact, a noun. Or how do you use it in your surroundings? "I just checkouted a new sweater"?

mugabe wrote:

khepri II wrote:i found punning on check out ( to view ) and checkout (to buy) was a lost opportunity. Sadly, there are many such cases

The failure of your pun may be owing to the fact that "checkout" is, in fact, a noun. Or how do you use it in your surroundings? "I just checkouted a new sweater"?

no failure on my part.

but i'm not badgering you anymore the fun has gone

time to find the next victim

_emma_ wrote:That's a good point, but what I aimed at was feeling the language, as part of yourself, not just being able to speak it. ... First language acquisition is not based on any previous knowledge of a language, whereas second language acquisition is, and I think this does make a big difference.

I'm confident that if I were to move to Mongolia, I would be able to pick up the language without it being based on my previous knowledge of Swedish. Perhaps not very quickly, but still.

_emma_ wrote:Speaking a foreign language fluently wouldn't be possible at all if you translated things in your head. That only happens at pre-intermediate level, as far as I remember.

And when it comes to the decision of whether to use "splendid" or "marvellous".

mugabe wrote:

_emma_ wrote:That's a good point, but what I aimed at was feeling the language, as part of yourself, not just being able to speak it. ... First language acquisition is not based on any previous knowledge of a language, whereas second language acquisition is, and I think this does make a big difference.

I'm confident that if I were to move to Mongolia, I would be able to pick up the language without it being based on my previous knowledge of Swedish. Perhaps not very quickly, but still.

Congratulations. I think I wouldn't be able to do that.

mugabe wrote:

_emma_ wrote:Speaking a foreign language fluently wouldn't be possible at all if you translated things in your head. That only happens at pre-intermediate level, as far as I remember.

And when it comes to the decision of whether to use "splendid" or "marvellous".

No, I didn't think of translating both "splendid" and "marvellous" in your head before choosing which one to use. I thought of the difficulty to choose which of the two fits in better with a given sentence or phrase as far as conveying your feelings about the object you refer to is concerned. In my opinion, communication deprived of that sort of in-depth feeling of the words will always be kind of... superficial. Not that I like the idea of course...
Luckily, there's also music, the most perfect form of expression, and the most universal language of all.

Now, I'm afraid this thread is bound to end up either in General Chat or Trash Bin thanks to us.
(HL definitely lacks an emoticon that would combine an uncertain smile with slight fear and a distant shade of sorrow. As soon as some clever Heartlander creates one, I'll use it very often. I should be fast asleep by now, I know.)

_emma_ wrote:I think I wouldn't be able to do that.

Of course you would. You would start by learning the words for water, potatoe and yak, and the next thing you know you'll be speaking Mongolian. Much in the way a child learns his first language, albeit slower.

_emma_ wrote:No, I didn't think of translating both "splendid" and "marvellous" in your head before choosing which one to use. I thought of the difficulty to choose which of the two fits in better with a given sentence or phrase as far as conveying your feelings about the object you refer to is concerned. In my opinion, communication deprived of that sort of in-depth feeling of the words will always be kind of... superficial.

This is the fundamental problem of communication and language. Even if you find the right word to describe your feeling, it is to no avail unless the person you're speaking to has the exact same definition of it. As I pointed out, this has more to do with your surroundings than whether the language you use is your mother tongue or not. You have learned the received definitions of the words you use to express your inner feelings, you are not born with them. Adopt - Adapt - Improve.

mugabe wrote:

_emma_ wrote:I think I wouldn't be able to do that.

Of course you would. You would start by learning the words for water, potatoe and yak, and the next thing you know you'll be speaking Mongolian. Much in the way a child learns his first language, albeit slower.

_emma_ wrote:No, I didn't think of translating both "splendid" and "marvellous" in your head before choosing which one to use. I thought of the difficulty to choose which of the two fits in better with a given sentence or phrase as far as conveying your feelings about the object you refer to is concerned. In my opinion, communication deprived of that sort of in-depth feeling of the words will always be kind of... superficial.

This is the fundamental problem of communication and language. Even if you find the right word to describe your feeling, it is to no avail unless the person you're speaking to has the exact same definition of it. As I pointed out, this has more to do with your surroundings than whether the language you use is your mother tongue or not. You have learned the received definitions of the words you use to express your inner feelings, you are not born with them. Adopt - Adapt - Improve.

Mr Mugabe

Not wishing to intrude. But if you're not a native English speaker, then the Pope's a Sisters fan. So, you're just playing devil's advocate, in which case I suggest you just light a cigarette and shut the f**k up.

i'm guessing the round table is English in origin

Thrash Harry wrote:Not wishing to intrude. But if you're not a native English speaker, then the Pope's a Sisters fan. So, you're just playing devil's advocate, in which case I suggest you just light a cigarette and shut the **** up.

Well, I'm not. I started learning English in third grade here in Sweden. Besides, even if I were a native speaker, I don't think that would invalidate my arguments. Now, your comment rather corroborates them.

khepri II wrote:i'm guessing the round table is English in origin

Well alright, Mugabe. If you're so f**king clever, explain that to me.

Mugabe's right. But I'm right too. Now that I've said what I've said and have nothing more to say, I'm out of here.
Words are just dust...
Have fun.

The Sound Of Silence

Thrash Harry wrote:

khepri II wrote:i'm guessing the round table is English in origin

Well alright, Mugabe. If you're so **** clever, explain that to me.

"Adopt - Adapt - Improve" is the motto of the Round Table association.

Do you have a problem?

Looks like it's all about to kick off!

Pars 'Mauler' Mugabe v Thrash 'you to within an inch of your life' Harry.

I arranged with QB for this thread to be moved to pay per view, so if you want to see all the action PM your credit card details to me now. Thanks.

sugar baby love
gimme gimme gimme

the last one start great..but that should have been an intro to a SOM song..not some cover from abba...