Heartland

James Blast wrote:I come in peace ems, Herr Loki seems to have lost the plot with me. I dunno why and I'm rather upset.

this week: sith kicks off at work, I'll be in touch
I ken I'm on a hiding to nothig, I won't win
the Personnel Dept. always side with the Managers

Remember - any meetings you have to attend you are entitled to take another person with you - they don't have to say anything nor do they have to be a union rep. - but if you have someone you can trust take them both for moral support and as a witness

Black Alice wrote:Remember - any meetings you have to attend you are entitled to take another person with you - they don't have to say anything nor do they have to be a union rep. - but if you have someone you can trust take them both for moral support and as a witness

I never knew that Alice, hmmmmm changes the complection of things somewhat

once again, thankee

In that case - you might find the ACAS booklet on disciplinary procedures useful. You'll find it on the ACAS website (www.acas.org.uk/rights/discipline.html) It sets out the procedures which all firms should follow - even small firms - when dealing with any issue. Although the procedure is not legally binding any employment tribunal will look into whether it was followed and if it wasn't the tribunal will probably look more favourably on the dismissed employee.

Even of you are not heading for dismissal there are things they should be doing - verbal warnings; setting up an action plan of how they expect you to improve; timetables for this; keeping you informed etc.

Have a look - you really need to make sure that they follow this and note when they don't - it could be very useful later

Black Alice wrote:In that case - you might find the ACAS booklet on disciplinary procedures useful. You'll find it on the ACAS website (www.acas.org.uk/rights/discipline.html) It sets out the procedures which all firms should follow - even small firms - when dealing with any issue. Although the procedure is not legally binding any employment tribunal will look into whether it was followed and if it wasn't the tribunal will probably look more favourably on the dismissed employee.

That's exactly what happened with former employers of mine when a member of staff they got rid of (while she was signed off sick!) took her case to a tribunal. She was claiming "unfair selection for dismissal" but the tribunal ruled against this. However, they did pounce on my employers for not following the grievance procedures and exposed their dubious tactics at the hearing. As a result, the ex member of staff got a pay-out anyway.

Good advice, Black Alice. Note everything that happens, writing it on your hand if necessary. Don't rely on memory - get it down in writing. Companies who know how to weazel their way out of their responsibilities are the norm, not the exception.

a) I'm not going to tomorrow's meeting without a witness
b) my diary has brought forth some revelations

Write down what they say in the meeting. It's not just a discussion. Take notes of their claims or comments.

The big houses of lawyers are built on this stuff.

James Blast wrote:a) I'm not going to tomorrow's meeting without a witness
b) my diary has brought forth some revelations

*Please* keep us posted on the outcome, James...this has me really riled up, as I seem to have the "luck" of dealing with this notorious brand of utter f*cknut ARSEH0LE everywhere I've ever worked!!!

*Counts to 10 to avoid having a heart attack*

Yeah, I can relate to that, Sister! It's why I don't work as an employee, even though I made a few valiant attempts at it.

update
Met the Unison Rep today and she rather wrong footed me by not being her usual firey self (she wants to nail my line manager from a previous grievance) and suggesting we try some sort of arbitration. To that effect she's set up a meeting with her and myself vs. Personnel and HellBitch. She seems to think my redeployment to another Design Unit within the Council is a better option than an all out grievance procedure as a first strike. I am in her hands.

I feel a bit cheated.

once again, a big thanks to everyone who has supported me

What are YOU up for, Blast? Do you wanna tag 'em and bag 'em, or would you be happy with a transfer?

Glad to hear the Union rep's at least partly on your side outside of professional requirements. Bodes well.

I'm fed up with the whole kit and caboodle, tim:

• I hate the way the organisation is run;
  I hate the building;
  I love 90% of the people;
  I hate that fcukin' road to hell every morning,
  but most of all, I hate the way middle management (who are not as experienced or as qualified as many of us) can enforce their ill thought decisions because of the 'pecking order'.

I am not frightened of work, never have been. Hell I used to live for it.
I'd just like a chance to do it without uninformed interference and harassment.

James Blast wrote:I'm fed up with the whole kit and caboodle, tim:

• I hate the way the organisation is run;
  I hate the building;
  I love 90% of the people;
  I hate that fcukin' road to hell every morning,
  but most of all, I hate the way middle management (who are not as experienced or as qualified as many of us) can enforce their ill thought decisions because of the 'pecking order'.

I am not frightened of work, never have been. Hell I used to live for it.
I'd just like a chance to do it without uninformed interference and harassment.

Amen.

James Blast wrote:I'm fed up with the whole kit and caboodle, tim:

• I hate the way the organisation is run;
  I hate the building;
  I love 90% of the people;
  I hate that fcukin' road to hell every morning,
  but most of all, I hate the way middle management (who are not as experienced or as qualified as many of us) can enforce their ill thought decisions because of the 'pecking order'.

I am not frightened of work, never have been. Hell I used to live for it.
I'd just like a chance to do it without uninformed interference and harassment.

s**t...

Could this be a prime time to cut free? Or do you wanna try and fix things?

Doesn't seem too great, mate. Maybe you've been sent a none-too-subtle hint?

timsinister wrote:Could this be a prime time to cut free? Or do you wanna try and fix things?

not easy at 46, even with a degree, fcukin' good portfolio and experience

timsinister wrote:Doesn't seem too great, mate. Maybe you've been sent a none-too-subtle hint?

do you mean I've been shafted?

I have my pension, accrued over 23 years of this sith to consider.
Do not be surprised if you are in a similar situ a decade or two from now.

What about seemingly playing along the game and then looking for a new job, while you're still working in this place?

Believe in yourself James.
I'm sure you're talented, hard working and
employable. 46 ? so what.
If they don't appreciate you, f**k'em.
Go and find a better job. YOU CAN.
Be confident. It counts for so much in life.

Ocean Moves wrote:Believe in yourself James.
I'm sure you're talented, hard working and
employable. 46 ? so what.
If they don't appreciate you, f**k'em.
Go and find a better job. YOU CAN.
Be confident. It counts for so much in life.

Couldn't have put it into better words, that's exactly it!

James Blast wrote:update
Met the Unison Rep today and she rather wrong footed me by not being her usual firey self (she wants to nail my line manager from a previous grievance) and suggesting we try some sort of arbitration. To that effect she's set up a meeting with her and myself vs. Personnel and HellBitch. She seems to think my redeployment to another Design Unit within the Council is a better option than an all out grievance procedure as a first strike. I am in her hands.

I feel a bit cheated.

once again, a big thanks to everyone who has supported me

Not knowing the background I am a little reluctant to make any comments, but what I would say is be very careful about wanting your day in court - it often isn't the fair trial that people want, deserve or expect. Try to work out what will be a healthy conclusion for you - after all, your mental and physical well being is paramount. It may be that being redeployed is the first rather than the only step - you may still get your grievance procedure (but I would need to know all the facts before I could say for definite).

Just remember to keep that diary and never be alone

Fuckin' f**k 'em.

It's never to late to either join a rock'n'roll band or become a hobo.

my father in law had an industrial tribunal, which he won, but they brought up loads of irrelevant s**t about him that had never been brought up by his managers or was true anyway.

@ ems that is my main fear but then, I do have my 'Diary Of Fear' which details a lot of her shortcomings/inadequacies over a 12 month period.
Mud will be flung.
I'm no angel but I know my job, I get it done and I try to keep a sense of humour.


Pictures Of You - The Cure

Mud will be flung.

stayed off this thread, but followed it with interest. James my only real input would be don't fling mud, try to remain really calm and factual - not she said this/ he said that ~ it will reflect badly on you!!

i think B.A llb wrote sense, 'have your expectations mapped out in advance' and don't stray too far from that focus

a basic format should be:

list all issues seperately
compare issues
develop a plan to close the gaps on those issues

and really, if you can't do that, you're f**ked my friend, coz, to the bosses, you'll be forever a boatrocker

best wishes though

and now i'll retire and leave you to your thread

boudicca wrote:Fuckin' f**k 'em.

It's never to late to either join a rock'n'roll band or become a hobo.

Or open a stall "doon tha barras" selling 'bric-a-brac'

Big Si wrote:

boudicca wrote:Fuckin' f**k 'em.

It's never to late to either join a rock'n'roll band or become a hobo.

Or open a stall "doon tha barras" selling 'bric-a-brac'

Listen tae the Big Man, Blast!