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I wonder if the hundreds of thousands of dead in the Iraq war were all Islamic militants? I wonder if all the people killed in drone strikes in Afghanistan and Pakistan (and who knows where else) were Jihadis?nowayjose wrote:I wonder if the guys hanging from cranes in Iran, the women buried to their shoulders in the ground in Afghanistan, the girls with their faces destroyed by acid, the people shred to pieces by bombs, smouldered to charcoal in burned-down churches, who got their throats slit and heads cut off, had their limbs amputated, got whipped to death or simply a knife stuck in their torso a dozen times were also "islamophobic".
That doesn't really seem to be relevant to the point nowayjose is making.markfiend wrote:I wonder if the hundreds of thousands of dead in the Iraq war were all Islamic militants? I wonder if all the people killed in drone strikes in Afghanistan and Pakistan (and who knows where else) were Jihadis?nowayjose wrote:I wonder if the guys hanging from cranes in Iran, the women buried to their shoulders in the ground in Afghanistan, the girls with their faces destroyed by acid, the people shred to pieces by bombs, smouldered to charcoal in burned-down churches, who got their throats slit and heads cut off, had their limbs amputated, got whipped to death or simply a knife stuck in their torso a dozen times were also "islamophobic".
I think two points are in order here:markfiend wrote: This is what Islamophobia means. You're demonising something like a billion people because of the actions of a few nutters. And you know what? 99% of Muslims are as horrified by it as you are. Muslims are not "the other", they're people like you and me.
What have the Jews done that would merit such statements?markfiend wrote: Replace the word "Muslim" in what Dawkins is saying with the word "Jew"... now see how comfortable you are with his statements.
markfiend wrote: Personally I'm more worried about a potential Christian theocracy in the USA than I am about Islamic ones in the Middle-East.
That's not exactly true is it? Indonesia and Malaysia are both secular(ish) liberal(ish) democracies(ish). The problem is demonstrably not Islam itself.secular liberalism is a loser in the Muslim world
There are 50-some-odd Islamic nations in the world. So, of Islamic nations, you've cited 4% - a 4% which is under increasing internal pressure from the forces of Islamism. Actually, I've just checked: the OIC includes 56 nations. So we're looking at less than 4%. The problem may not be Islam itself, but there is insufficient evidence to claim that the problem is "demonstrably not Islam itself."markfiend wrote:OK I withdraw the "99%" claim. I was thinking "99% of Muslims in the UK" but I guess that's not really relevant.
That's not exactly true is it? Indonesia and Malaysia are both secular(ish) liberal(ish) democracies(ish). The problem is demonstrably not Islam itself.secular liberalism is a loser in the Muslim world
Then why has the US been called the "Great Satan" for years before Iraq/Afghanistan? Why specifically Satan? What does Satan do? He tempts.markfiend wrote: But do we not have to ask why is it that some parts ofthe Islamic world are so fearful of western Liberalism? They see the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as part of a continuation of the Crusades, a perception not helped by Bush the Younger actually using the word. When you percieve your country as being under attack from an external aggressor, it's unlikely that you'd want to bring on board ideals claimed by that foregin power. "They hate us for our freedoms" is a self-serving lie. They hate us because we're bombing them.
You remind me of a medieval peasant looking for witches in every shadow, except instead you're looking for Christians.markfiend wrote: As for a Christian theocracy in the USA, I don't think it's likely to happen, but you can't deny that there is a significant force trying to bring it about. Every time there's a court-case about prayer in schools, or whatever else 1st Amendment issue, mainstream commentary pipes up with the same old talking-points such as "this is a Christian country", etc. ad nauseam. They may never actually get there but they keep trying.
I think both Indonesia and Malaysia have quite a problem with extremist Islam themselves.That's not exactly true is it? Indonesia and Malaysia are both secular(ish) liberal(ish) democracies(ish). The problem is demonstrably not Islam itself.
Who them? Baathist Saddam?They hate us because we're bombing them.
but even considering that it true, getting rid of Jihadists, so~called Muslim extremists- terrorists waving Q'ran it's still kinda positive.A well-known rebel leader in Ghouta named ‘J’ agreed. “Jabhat al-Nusra militants do not cooperate with other rebels, except with fighting on the ground. They do not share secret information. They merely used some ordinary rebels to carry and operate this material,� he said.
“We were very curious about these arms. And unfortunately, some of the fighters handled the weapons improperly and set off the explosions,� ‘J’ said.