gnarls barkley - eldritch take note

[Mr Thorburn]

no doubt eldritch manages time to read the times every day whilst on tour.

no doubt he will also be aware from said publication that "gnarls barkley" is set to top the uk singles charts tomorrow as new rules brought in last month allow digital sales to count towards the singles chart, providing the single is physically released a week later.

said mr barkley could go to number 1 with 40,000 downloads or fewer, according to industry sources.

go figure;

sisters play a 52 date tour to - approx 50,000 fans.
von knows how many hits to his website for video/suzanne downloads.
neither are promoted at all, apart from on the net.

what's stoppping you putting out a single mr eldritch?

-huge amounts of control for the artist ( compared to being on a major)
-very little cost
-no 3rd rate distributer issues
-we all download the track for 79p & are happy punters
-no 1 single
-he has the last laugh/its all deeply ironic
-back catalogue sales soar so he can buy a nice old 560sec to faff around in.

have i missed something out here?

comments from the floor welcomed

[Erudite]

no doubt eldritch manages time to read the times every day whilst on tour.

no doubt he will also be aware from said publication that "gnarls barkley" is set to top the uk singles charts tomorrow as new rules brought in last month allow digital sales to count towards the singles chart, providing the single is physically released a week later.

said mr barkley could go to number 1 with 40,000 downloads or fewer, according to industry sources.

go figure;

sisters play a 52 date tour to - approx 50,000 fans.
von knows how many hits to his website for video/suzanne downloads.
neither are promoted at all, apart from on the net.

what's stoppping you putting out a single mr eldritch?

-huge amounts of control for the artist ( compared to being on a major)
-very little cost
-no 3rd rate distributer issues
-we all download the track for 79p & are happy punters
-no 1 single
-he has the last laugh/its all deeply ironic
-back catalogue sales soar so he can buy a nice old 560sec to faff around in.

have i missed something out here?

comments from the floor welcomed

Not as far as I can see, but what the hell do I know?

I'm sure some of my learned colleagues will explain.

[Ocean Moves]

no doubt eldritch manages time to read the times every day whilst on tour.

no doubt he will also be aware from said publication that "gnarls barkley" is set to top the uk singles charts tomorrow as new rules brought in last month allow digital sales to count towards the singles chart, providing the single is physically released a week later.

said mr barkley could go to number 1 with 40,000 downloads or fewer, according to industry sources.

go figure;

sisters play a 52 date tour to - approx 50,000 fans.
von knows how many hits to his website for video/suzanne downloads.
neither are promoted at all, apart from on the net.

what's stoppping you putting out a single mr eldritch?

-huge amounts of control for the artist ( compared to being on a major)
-very little cost
-no 3rd rate distributer issues
-we all download the track for 79p & are happy punters
-no 1 single
-he has the last laugh/its all deeply ironic
-back catalogue sales soar so he can buy a nice old 560sec to faff around in.

have i missed something out here?

comments from the floor welcomed

yer. soul seek.

[eotunun]

Well, I guess it is a bit more difficult than we imagine: It would require a monster of a server and really really powerfull internetconnetction to handle it (At least in the first days after the release..)
But I`m with you thinking that, given the right partners and organization, it would be possible to release an album without the holders of shares.

[Badlander]

sisters play a 52 date tour to - approx 50,000 fans.

I'm really not sure it'd mean 50,000 or so downloads.
A concert goer ain't always a fan.

[eotunun]

50 million, maybe.

[mugabe]

Gnarls Barkley are surrounded by a massive hype, get extensive airplay, and reach 40.000 downloads. Do the math.

[Ocean Moves]

ok. what kind of product do you get to hold in
your hands when you've paid your 79 p ?

A shiny plastic box with record company
seals and offical seals on it ?
high quality printed artwork ?
a pretty cd?
(I've already assumed the days of lucious
pieces of vinyl are over)
...No. you get...a file. Wow. that was worth waiting
13 years for.

I refer you to my previous reply further up this thread.

[Smallstone]

OK - it IS #1 (in the UK anyway) for what that's worth these days.... but I think whilst you kinda have a point you are all also missing a few other ones

1. RE: the huge amounts of control for the artist. This is kind of true. There's nothing in theory stopping anyone: me, you, my postman YOUR POSTMAN etc making a record. Trying to get it online - lets say at iTunes (the UK market leader - the US market leader too... though strangely not the German market leader.... but we'll come onto the relevance of that later) is another matter. It does however HAVE TO BE GOOD and then folks NEED TO KNOW ITS AVAILABLE. Which leads to
1a) At the end of the day it's the 'promo' that matters. The radio, the marketing, the press. The 'schnizzle' basically. One is kidding one-self if one thinks downloads are going to 'destroy' the majors and bring about some utopian free for all musical revolution. NOT. GOING. TO. HAPPEN.
It's just ANOTHER format. Like CDS were gonna destroy the majors - indies etc DIDN'T HAPPEN.
2. Very little cost to issue. In principal. Yes correct. No stock = no manufacturing costs = no warehouse costs. No overstocks, no shipping fees. NO RETURNS FOR THE 1000s OF RECORDS THAT DON'T SELL. It's all in the ether. It is effectively a 1 off cost to get the track or tracks (bundles) digitised. You pay someone to do it or you get your.......HANG ON NOW..... your DISTRIBUTOR to do it. That's right. DIGITAL DISTRIBUTOR. Now imagine this everyone's making music. From say.... SOM to someone like your POSTMAN. Millions of tracks. Millions of bands.
The DIGITAL charts are made up of tracks that are sold over iTunes, Napster, HMV online, Virgin online, Tiscali etc etc. Not some derf nifters personal site. NOT VONS HARDRIVE!! You have to SELL your tune/album to effectively AN ONLINE / DIGITAL shop. To get them to NOTICE your track you need to do promo - hello back to point 1a again. Marketing.
So unless you are a) popular b) on the radio, in the press, on TV MARKETING yourself (very expensive) the digital shops who's sales contribute to the charts won't know about you and d) be selling your track to the public.

Ok 50k people question. It's all done country by country. If you are living in Idaho, USA your download of say We Are The Same Suzanne will not count to the UK chart. 50k SOM fans in the UK? I think not? Well maybe over time or at some point in time.....but now?
So you'd need to mobilise pretty much every one and their Mum in the UK to go to itunes to buy it. Unlikely.

The idea that Digital Downloads is a utopian nirvana where everyone can make tunes from Von to Tony Blair and have hits is a myth!! Gnarls Barkley is on WARNERS! Vons old label..... they are spending a fortune on TV ads now. The physical formats of the single are out this week. It's standard practise to release digital a week up front. Also digital sales are taken not only country by country but week by week. So to get into the charts you have to - just like physical formats - go out and buy the digital track the week it comes out for those sales to qualify for that particular weeks charts. It's not cumulative.

And re: 13 years for a download. I have to agree as well. But in this case should Von ever release a single again - let alone an album it would be with a physical release as well I think. A nice 7" maybe.....

[Badlander]

And re: 13 years for a download. I have to agree as well. But in this case should Von ever release a single again - let alone an album it would be with a physical release as well I think. A nice 7" maybe.....

And thanks for a very well thought post.

[Electrochrome]

Excellent posts there.

I think Smallstone said it, really.

And 'tis true. While it looks like bands just come of nowhere and hit #1 and become stars and can release digital music...it's still the same deal. Somebody is putting up a lot of cash to sell the band. If it's Gnarls Barkley (Clockwork Orange getups, yawn), The Killers, The Bravery...same deal. Somebody is throwing filthy corporate money out there to promote these bands relentlessly.

The videos, the magazine covers, the gigs, the 'buzz'.......the distribution. Good point about digital distribution. Sure, everybody can make music, but you've still got a bottleneck to wider audiences because you need the cash-ish and the marketing to sell the band. Exploit. Competently.

As for Von....digital downloads are not new, and by the looks of it, the industry is trying to come to grips and make the best of it. The CD is not dead, the industry is not dead. If there's a record deal out there for The Sisters, it would have to incorporate downloads and videos and all the usual nonsense and have a good royalty system.

Biggest question is......who would the band be? What incarnation of the band would an album be released under, and who would get credit/royalties for the 'newer' songs? Any commitment to a label or a deal would mean less flexibility in terms of lineup changes, I'm just guessing here...most labels would want a dependable lineup.

Oh well. We have the gigs, and the records.

[Badlander]

Wow, there really is a lotta brain on this forum...

...after all.

*coat*

[Smallstone]

Thanks for the kind words:
The thing about this single is musically it's been put together by Dangermouse the guy behind the 'Grey Album' the lost mix (due to it being all samples!) of the Beatles 'White Album' and tracks by US rap muppet Jay Z. He's pretty well known anyway!
By all accounts the physical single is now FLYING off the shelves. It will be #1 for weeks and weeks. Due to it being chart fodder and the extra press being the 1st digital #1 has garrnered it!! Pop has indeed eaten itself done a huge digital dump and moved on to desert

[davedecay]

i thought i posted this but it seems not...

Gnarls Barkley is probably a spoof of Charles Barkley
http://www.nba.com/history/players/barkley_bio.html

note he was born in Leeds as well!

[canon docre]

Biggest question is......who would the band be? What incarnation of the band would an album be released under, and who would get credit/royalties for the 'newer' songs? Any commitment to a label or a deal would mean less flexibility in terms of lineup changes, I'm just guessing here...most labels would want a dependable lineup.

Oh well. We have the gigs, and the records.

The "newer" songs are already registered at the usual copyright protection societies. That's a must if they are played live, because royalties are collected from live performances too.

re. lineup changes: I dont think it plays a big role when it comes to a record deal. As long as there are a few heads around Eldritch for the promo pics.

[aims]

A few heads for him to run his fingers through?

[canon docre]

A few heads for him to run his fingers through?

You wish.

[Mr Thorburn]

interesting replies - thankyou.

1. do you have to be on a major to get your tracks on i tunes? i would assume not (now).

2. i kind of came at this from a different angle. hes gone for a 50 date world tour out of nowhere with zero schnizzle mizzle. whats stopping him putting out a record digitally on the same basis? ie independently. think of it as a taster for fans/potential record co deal?

3. i suppose it goes back to the old artistic control v major exploiting you v units sold & royalties dilemma. only this time its digital.


i really do wonder sometimes why he bothers with the music industry. better dust down my petition to the bbc to get him to become the next doctor who.

artie fufkin ( a & r dept)

[lazarus corporation]

I've written far too much on the subject of new forms of marketing/distribution elsewhere, but whilst the "gnarls barkley" track undoubtedly received heavy marketing through the BBC adverts, I'm convinced that the possibility is there for a less-marketed band (or at least, a band less marketed through traditional TV channels) can still generate substantial online sales when granted access via the web to a global market.

A "number 1" is just a concentration of those sales in a single economic entity (i.e. a nation state) but if you can get the same sales distributed worldwide then you still generate the same income since the overheads of global distribution are negated via the internet.

Sorry to get all economic-theory on y'all.

[paint it black]

word of 'virtual' mouth via places like here would surely do all the pre-sale marketing for any sisters release, just look at how much promotion there's been for the tour. not much and yet it's doing okay

back in the day word of mouth, nme, sounds etc would lift bands like JAMC into the top 10, true thet didn't (always) stay there, but they got an announcment of TOTP or whatever and that was enough for the second wave of sales.

my mate is selling stuff on-line without any problems

http://www.spoiltvictorianchild.co.uk/

and it was only word of 'virtual' mouth that made it, for a time, the biggest blog in europe

main problem is, and i know producers have offered, mr e. isn't interested and that's it, end of.

[lazarus corporation]

main problem is, and i know producers have offered, mr e. isn't interested and that's it, end of.

yes, absolutely - and that's undeniably the bottom line.

[davedecay]

you certainly don't have to be on a major to have songs on iTunes.

a local musician i know has his stuff on there, and the biggest label he's on is Birdman, i think.
http://brotherjt.com/home.cfm
http://birdmanrecords.com/

[Smallstone]

[quote="Mr Thorburn"]interesting replies - thankyou.


1. do you have to be on a major to get your tracks on i tunes? i would assume not (now).
Absolutely not. Look at Arctic Monkeys. #1 singles x 2. On Domino. Totally indie - no 'major' affiliaiotn at all in the UK.
One must rid oneself of the perception that ONLY the majors have hits. NOT TRUE.
Never has been the case. iTUnes takes all. But again if you have the PR/ Marketing clout and the cash to PROMOTE more iTunes and their ilk (just like high st stores) will NOTICE you and give you front page exposure. Just like high st stores put their best sellers at the front of their stores.
But in the case of Domino they are a very successful INDIE with money from the sales of Franz Ferdinand and now Arctic Monkeys. I mean they've been a fair to middling successful indie for 10 years + but now they're kinda... loaded!!
You can strike deals as indies with iTunes on your own.... but it's a busy world out there so don't expect much in the way of service compared to an on it indie distro or the majors... i.e. don't expect your release to be ready for download on the day you want it....

2. i kind of came at this from a different angle. hes gone for a 50 date world tour out of nowhere with zero schnizzle mizzle. whats stopping him putting out a record digitally on the same basis? ie independently. think of it as a taster for fans/potential record co deal?
Nothing is stopping him at all - but see above. He'd needs distribution - both physically and digitally (often now this comes together - easier to 'police' - see my previous mail about how digital and physical sales now go hand in hand. Maximising week 1 sales and all that - you want a high chart placing for Vons imaginary SOM single that doesn't exist - you need to tie physical and digital sales up.

3. i suppose it goes back to the old artistic control v major exploiting you v units sold & royalties dilemma. only this time its digital.
Kind of. But Von signed to a major (WEA) in what 1983/84? He went into that particular deal with his eyes open. What card did he play at the time? Better distrobution? He kinda had a point then (not now though). This is back in the day when there were a handful of Virgin shops (well megastores - lots of wee Virgin stores). HMV was a lot smaller. Lots of little independent record shops. This is back when one bought music (and we're talking JUST vinyl and cassettes) from Boots the Chemists and W H Smiths!!
R: expoitation. Who's exploiting who? It needs to be a symbiotic relationship for it to work. Von made a few bob from WEA. He left (or went on strike) after one of their routine regime changes. Regarding the 'strike' - who did that hurt more? Von or WEA? Another thread I guess but the answers pretty easy methinks!

i really do wonder sometimes why he bothers with the music industry.
He only really bothers with playing live now. He deals with agents/promoters and the logistics of a live show.....
better dust down my petition to the bbc to get him to become the next doctor who.
a fine idea!! Personally my vote goes for Bill Nighy

artie fufkin ( a & r dept)[/quote]

[Quiff Boy]

48Crash is more or less run out of a spare room in a house in farsley, and their bands all feature on iTunes...

they use a company called vital for distribution, who seem pretty good at what they do.

[markfiend]

You're shameless.