Heartland

I was reading about the WEA Mixes bootleg on the Wiki (http://www.sisterswiki.org/index.php/The_WEA_Mixes_1985)

Are the mixes noticeably different from the final edits? I would very much like to hear them...

Some of them (the "Mack Mixes" which can be found on the "Last Magician Of Rational Thought" 7" bootleg EP), are very different. Better than the final mixes, IMHO.

The "Eldritch Mixes" are somewhat bad, like the final mixes only duller.

That's just from memory, as I can't find my copy anywhere, but if you check the Weeding section, the WEA mixes are there.

robertzombie wrote:Are the mixes noticeably different from the final edits? I would very much like to hear them...

I'm pretty sure they've been weeded.

Dark wrote:Some of them (the "Mack Mixes" which can be found on the "Last Magician Of Rational Thought" 7" bootleg EP), are very different. Better than the final mixes, IMHO.

I once saw the original WEA tapes and I'm pretty sure they didn't differetiate between "mack mix" and "Eldritch mix". Those tags appear to be a bootleggers invention. I can only assume "mack" is a corruption of "magician", as the "mack mix" tracks are the ones off "last magician...". Those 4 tracks were selected from the 14-or-so tracks on the 2 cassettes as they were considered to be the most different.

Could it be that these "Mack mixes" were done by Reinhold Mack?
See Mack (2) at Discogs.com and look up what mixes he had done
around the time 1984/85 (Meat Loaf), it makes some sense...

Fodderstompf wrote:Could it be that these "Mack mixes" were done by Reinhold Mack?
See Mack (2) at Discogs.com and look up what mixes he had done
around the time 1984/85 (Meat Loaf), it makes some sense...

I stumbled upon Mr Mack today when browsing info on Strawberry Studios. Looks like Mack had some part in installing a mixing desk at the studio in the early 80s? I think it's possible that Reinhold is the likeliest candidate for being responsible for those Sisters mixes.

Giving the Mack mix of Walk Away a listen right now, and strongly suspecting this is the work of one Reinhold Mack. IMO, it's a better mix than the album version, certainly crisper and higher fidelity. Better guitar sound, too.

Given his credentials (Queen, ELO, etc.) it's easy enough to put two and two together. The last name of a famous producer/engineer working in that studio around that time, who worked on some pretty glossy productions, winds up on mixes that are slicker than the others?

There was an interview with him in TapeOp, a recording magazine here in The States, a few years back. I'll try and track that down and see if he mentions anything from that time period.

Llamatron wrote:Giving the Mack mix of Walk Away a listen right now, and strongly suspecting this is the work of one Reinhold Mack. IMO, it's a better mix than the album version, certainly crisper and higher fidelity. Better guitar sound, too.

Given his credentials (Queen, ELO, etc.) it's easy enough to put two and two together. The last name of a famous producer/engineer working in that studio around that time, who worked on some pretty glossy productions, winds up on mixes that are slicker than the others?

There was an interview with him in TapeOp, a recording magazine here in The States, a few years back. I'll try and track that down and see if he mentions anything from that time period.

It most certainly is...

lifted from

http://www.funtrivia.com/en/subtopics/T ... 87128.html

Heart. The producer of "Sail Away Sweet Sister's" album, "The Game" (along with Queen themselves) was Reinhold Mack, credited simply as "Mack". An engineer by trade, he provided technical support for Electric Light Orchestra through the 1970s, and would go on to coproduce Queen's "Flash Gordon" soundtrack, as well as their next three albums: "Hot Space", " The Works", and "A Kind of Magic". Mack would also work with Brian May, Freddie Mercury, and Roger Taylor on various solo projects.

Flagg

(additionally, naming the EP "Magician" - happened long after the WEA tapes surfaced..)

I'm quite interested to hear the opinions of others regarding the versions of Black Planet.

The three mixes present seem to be one and the same, with one having had it's intro cropped.

Randall Flagg wrote:(additionally, naming the EP "Magician" - happened long after the WEA tapes surfaced..)

Well yes, obviously, because it's the name Palazzograssi gave to the EP.

I saw the tapes 6 months before the EP was released and the word "Mack" wasn't mentioned on the inlays. I still suspect those naff copymasters inlays are a bootleggers creation.

Dan wrote:

Randall Flagg wrote:(additionally, naming the EP "Magician" - happened long after the WEA tapes surfaced..)

Well yes, obviously, because it's the name Palazzograssi gave to the EP.

I saw the tapes 6 months before the EP was released and the word "Mack" wasn't mentioned on the inlays. I still suspect those naff copymasters inlays are a bootleggers creation.

Dan,

I know 9 years have passed - but in your post dated May 14 2006 you suggest that 'Mack' was added to the tape inlay/listing as a result of the Magician EP - I was merely stating that was not the case.

F

Randall Flagg wrote:

Dan wrote:

Randall Flagg wrote:(additionally, naming the EP "Magician" - happened long after the WEA tapes surfaced..)

Well yes, obviously, because it's the name Palazzograssi gave to the EP.

I saw the tapes 6 months before the EP was released and the word "Mack" wasn't mentioned on the inlays. I still suspect those naff copymasters inlays are a bootleggers creation.

Dan,

I know 9 years have passed - but in your post dated May 14 2006 you suggest that 'Mack' was added to the tape inlay/listing as a result of the Magician EP - I was merely stating that was not the case.

F

How do you know it's not the case? I saw the inlays of the tapes Pete had - 6 months before Last Magician was released, there was no mention of Mack Mix. There wasn't much info on the inlays at all apart from the date and the song titles.
Later after the EP was released I asked him why those 4 songs were chosen. He said because they were the best 4 songs on the tapes.
Notice that there's nothing about any "Mack Mix" listed on the last Magician EP. Knowing Palazograssi's attention to detail they would surely have listed this info if known.

Many years later that set of bootleg CD's appeared, ("Kenny Giles...", "WEA Mix" & "Scraping The Barrel" as I like to call the 3rd disc).
Those 4 tracks are listed as "Mack Mix" there, as well as on those dodgy looking "copymasters" cassette inlays. (I also remember one bootlegger who used that exact same font. Yes two people can have the same typewriter, I merely present this as an additional piece of information.)

What I'm suggesting is that at some stage someone wanted to add the information that "these 4 songs are the ones that were used on last Magician" and it needed an abbreviation because that's too long, and he probably wrote "Mag Mix" and for some reason it became "Mack Mix". Believe what you like but as far as I'm concerned it's a completely bogus title.

I've opened a discussion with Mack to figure this out.

Confirmed. WEA asked Reinhold Mack to do the mixes at his Musicland studio.

robertzombie wrote:Confirmed. WEA asked Reinhold Mack to do the mixes at his Musicland studio.

Nice work Rob, any other insight?

F

Well done, Rob. How often do we spend ages speculating on something when the obvious answer is simply to ask the person concerned!

... ... supercool ... ... thank you for this research !!!

Excellent work, good sir.

The question remains: why didn't they use them?

Llamatron wrote:Excellent work, good sir.

The question remains: why didn't they use them?

He didn't get on with Eldritch. Sounds like the job was abandoned.

robertzombie wrote: He didn't get on with Eldritch.

aha! that old chestnut. i try not to wonder how much we've been deprived of due to Eldritch's , erm.....artistic temperament. oh well, without him we'd have nothing, but still...

I'm writing an article about all of this at the moment so I won't go into too much detail here for fear of repeating myself later on. However, consider how remarkably similar Mack's mixes of "First And Last And Always" and "No Time To Cry" sound to their officially release "Japanese" counterparts. I have my suspicions...

robertzombie wrote:I'm writing an article about all of this at the moment so I won't go into too much detail here for fear of repeating myself later on. However, consider how remarkably similar Mack's mixes of "First And Last And Always" and "No Time To Cry" sound to their officially release "Japanese" counterparts. I have my suspicions...

to be honest for a long while i was under the impression that they were the japanese mixes (well, some of them). i look forward to reading your article Rob.

eastmidswhizzkid wrote:

robertzombie wrote:I'm writing an article about all of this at the moment so I won't go into too much detail here for fear of repeating myself later on. However, consider how remarkably similar Mack's mixes of "First And Last And Always" and "No Time To Cry" sound to their officially release "Japanese" counterparts. I have my suspicions...

to be honest for a long while i was under the impression that they were the japanese mixes (well, some of them). i look forward to reading your article Rob.

Oh, that will become a wonderful article. Can't wait to read it ... ...
As to the Japanese / Mack mixes, I prefer the Eldritch ones. Except for the MOFI versions, which are great.
And anyway, it's always interesting for me to hear different versions or mixes.

Being645 wrote:

eastmidswhizzkid wrote: i look forward to reading your article Rob.

Oh, that will become a wonderful article. Can't wait to read it ... ...

It's becoming quite a beast. Already 4,000 words long and only 2/3 complete. I've got an interview lined up with the guy who prepared the original "Japanese" master reel.