Heartland

Can anyone say 'Big Brother'?

All I can think right now is "disgusting, utterly disgusting".

Absolute loblocks. Who does the man think he is?

Something like this springs to mind.

Could also be that he watched this on his holiday
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gattaca

Dark wrote:Welcome to Britain. The Fourth Reich.

Get me the f**k out of here...

Taxi for Dark!

Reminds me of when Paul Daniels said he'd leave the country if the Conservatives lost in 1997 and one of the papers sent a removal van round to his house.

Not really a fan of Labour and I'm not sure if the method is sound, or it's a case of the media sensationalising again, but some children are born into such appalling circumstances in this country.

Levels of poverty that you and I could barely imagine, sometimes to parents who either have no clue, lack the understanding or motivation to bring up a child.

Some of the children may grow up to be poets who offer a thrilling incite into growing up in a harshly underprivileged world, most do not.

Maybe look at this as less of a matter of 'Big Brother' and more about tackling child abuse, helping parents who can’t cope (Talk to a few Social Workers in Childrens Services, you wouldn't believe some of the things that go on every single day) and giving some underprivileged kids the chance to break the cycle

That's horrible

Just to think you could make sure they'd be better of through making sure they get proper education, no monitoring is the answer

Fecking nutters, luckily we don't have any of those running Belgium

Europe wide problem isn't it?

Belgium's protection record with children has been slightly rocky to put it mildly.

Is this an issue that we're too frightened to tackle?

And one think tank suggested it was almost "genetic determinism" to suggest children could turn out to be troublemakers before they were born.

I guess that's what we're all afraid of. I like Ed Rhombus' contribution to the debate. It is a serious problem indeed, and calling Blair a fascist is no solution either (please note : I'm not having a shot at anybody in particular here, honest ).

As much as I hate the way this policy is implemented, I think I can understand the rationale. It is an undeniable fact that violence isn't a socially homogenous phenomenon, but is the solution to watch only a certain portion of the population ? I guess we all agree it's not. Then again, what should we do ? Nothing ?

Maybe we should try to understand why "drug and alcohol problems" are more common in certain social classes. The conservatives will say something along the lines of : "It's because certain people are inherently bad. That's why they're poor, because they're also lazy, BTW."

The Labour should say otherwise, but unfortunately they forgot the teaching of good old Karl Marx somewhere along the way. I'm not saying that's the solution, I'm saying that's a start : social injustice, which produces violence and "anti-social behaviour", is a reflection of economic injustice.

A lot of the problem is down to children who, frankly, their parents simply did not want. Better education about, and access to, contraception might help.

But oh no, we can't do that can we? The religious nutters will complain.

come and work with some kids from reception up to age 13. that'll open your eyes. you can see thr progression.. and sadly, despite everything you can do, some of those 13 year olds are already a very long way down the wrong road. some through (wrong) choice and some through deprivation and abuse.

Well done Tony, and for f**k sake Fourth Reich? Give me a break
It's tackling a problem that is getting out of hand.

I get sick of the bleeding hearts and liberals bleat on about human rights and draconian big brother tactics.

Just how many people a week are stabbed (or worse) for telling a yob off, or trying to do the right thing?

It's a long term approach and no doubt an unpopular one-hope he sticks to it.

weebleswobble wrote:I get sick of the bleeding hearts and liberals bleat on about human rights and draconian big brother tactics.

How would you like it if someone came into your home and started telling you how to bring up your kids? (I'm assuming for the sake of argument that you have any)

And the article says "There could be sanctions for parents who refused to take advice, he said." -- If you refuse to do what the social workers want you to do, you're going to jail.

Who gets to decide which are the "problem families"?

And don't tell me mistakes never happen.

The potential for abuse of this kind of system is mind-blowing.

I might not have faith in The Lib Dems to put things right but they've summed it up exactly here : "Empty threats to pregnant mothers will do little to restore confidence in a government that has failed to tackle poverty, crime and social exclusion for the last nine years".

Blair doesn't have any interest in tackling social problems as long as people suffer in silence. As soon as it starts upsetting the rich the government want to get involved. As long as you have capitalism and inequality you'll have anti-social behaviour. The system depends on
people being anti-social.

The government have no right to stigmatise anyone before they've done wrong. Maybe if there was something to respect things would be different. Blair hasn't shown much here or abroad. Likewise if people were actually educated properly, that is encourged to understand themselves and society things would improve.

Blair's a disgusting opportunist and he has to be forced to go.

weebleswobble wrote: I get sick of the bleeding hearts and liberals bleat on about human rights and draconian big brother tactics.

Somehow I was hoping for a more balanced opinion.
I'm not going to elaborate on that, just because I can't be arsed, but human rights are not incompatible with security.

@ Driven :

But then again, who could take the place of Blair ? Some conservative dickhead ?

WTF!

If this had been posted in JOTD it would have been sick.
As it is, it's deeply worrying.

What next? A sterilisation programme for low IQ?

To think I actually voted for that tosser the first time round in the 90's!

markfiend wrote:

weebleswobble wrote:I get sick of the bleeding hearts and liberals bleat on about human rights and draconian big brother tactics.

How would you like it if someone came into your home and started telling you how to bring up your kids? (I'm assuming for the sake of argument that you have any)



The potential for abuse of this kind of system is mind-blowing.

I have 2, any system is open to abuse.

Why don't we all sit back and pretend everything is shiny happy?

Why not meet the problem head on?

This has nothing to do with

upsetting the rich

and what any of this has to do with

capitalism

I don't know.

Try walking through Drumchapel on a Saturday night, try it on a Thursday afternoon. Not.Much.Fun.

I know I'll never change your minds and you will not change mine, and with that I'm going back to calling people Fuds and slagging off Hawkwind........

It's quite amusing that anyone managed to get excited or annoyed by that article, seeing as how it gave us an encyclopaedic level of detail on bugger all.

Can we please wait until someone makes an announcement of substance before getting worked up? This could be executed to either great success or detriment depending on how it's approached (note that no framework for "intervention" was defined in the article, very shoddy journalism for the BBC). It could quite easily be as non-invasive as a child's booster shots and school parents evenings (which many parents regardless of background would appear to neglect anyway ) or as humiliating as trial by media (which certain parents would be the first to cry out for if someone other than themselves was remotely suspected of damaging their child). None of that was defined in the article.

markfiend wrote:
Who gets to decide which are the "problem families"?

And don't tell me mistakes never happen.

The potential for abuse of this kind of system is mind-blowing.

The whole system is riddled with mistakes. Sadly it's never going to be an exact science.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4557538.stm

This case being a more recent example where opposite type of mistake happened. The intervention that was made was ineffective, weak and toothless.

Badlander wrote:

weebleswobble wrote: I get sick of the bleeding hearts and liberals bleat on about human rights and draconian big brother tactics.

Somehow I was hoping for a more balanced opinion.
I'm not going to elaborate on that, just because I can't be arsed, but human rights are not incompatible with security.

@ Driven :

But then again, who could take the place of Blair ? Some conservative dickhead ?

Probably, unless most people somehow realise that you have the same thing with either of them.

Education and upbringing of children all went down the drain when some idiot suggested that you cannot give your kid a healthy slap on the butt anymore.

Now they are brought up so loosely that they kick their parent's shins at the age of six, and bash in their granny's brains when they reach age 8.

If you want to tackle the problem at an early age, THAT is the place to start.

Blair'd better invest in one Supernanny per family, to teach parent how to bring up their children. The world in general would become a finer place.

IZ.

Ed Rhombus wrote: Some of the children may grow up to be poets who offer a thrilling incite into growing up in a harshly underprivileged world, most do not.

I fear in the agenda of politicians poets are of little interest. They want managers and workers that vote them and pay the tax, waggle palmleaves at their bosses and shut up on their spare time.
Not forgetting their duty of giving the company leader a child.

Some german politicians calling for cutting rights to travel for unemployeds.
Unemployeds are demanded to give service as security personel for 1,20€ per hour by politicians from Sachsen Anhalt, formerly SED members in the GDR-days. Thanks to Ex-chancelor Kohl for importing these crooks.

Phone and internet traffic get controlled. There are cameras in the streets everywhere. I admit, this is a blessing for hunting terrorists. I understand it is a big step towards bid brother. Thanks to the true believers for giving a reason to build BB´s infratstucture. F*ck yoursevles!
F*ck them all! And remember freedom, it was a nice thing.

kicking parent's shins at the age of six is a late developer... by four some are treating them to the foulest language

[quote="Erudite"]WTF!

What next? A sterilisation programme for low IQ?

quote]

Actually, this is a thought to consider. And no, I don't care about any IQ.

But, my GF is working with kids that have been / are being abused by their parents. It makes me sick when she tells me the horrorstories at night.

Imagine:
daughter, 13 years old. Being abused by the father and put away in this caring home because she "has problems with autority at school" After examination, it seems she is molested regulary by the father.
Two younger daughters are also taken away, and all show signs of abuse.

Family (mother and father) are invited for a talk at the office to try to figure out what the f*ck is wrong with this people. And YES, when they arrive, the mother is again pregnant.

IMHO: you take two rocks, you put his "organ" in between and then you hit as hard as you can...


So, distinction on IQ and stuff like that: hell no.
But, once proven guilty of child molesting: no mercy. Sterilisation (at least)
3 kids screwed up for life, the 4th underway...

Everybody has the right to have kids, sure. But please protect the children from parents who are not able to raise kids.

Before I say this, let me preface it with a few facts:
1) I'm sure I know nothing about living in any country other than Jesus Country, U.S.A.
2) I didn't read the links (it's a personal policy).


BUT, what I'm saying is: free abortions. Just look at the crime-rate drop 16-18 years after we legalized abortions in the United States (I'm referencing "Freakanomics" here, which should be underlined but oops, which I'm too lazy to look up british or outside-of-america sales for, but which is probably readily available via the interwebnet). I'm just saying, it (being abortion) works.

And of course, smashing the testicles of abusers (or at least cutting up the spermy tubes) surely wouldn't hurt anything.


Why is driving a car a priviledge and creating a human being a right?

that's it, signing off

-the rampant babbler.