Heartland

Trying to learn more about your perceptions.

For your review:

http://www.adl.org/ADL_Opinions/Anti_Se ... NY+Sun.htm

Your comments will be read most thoughtfully.

My first reaction: Being opposed to Israel's policies towards Palestine does not make one anti-Semitic.
From your link:

are Jewish sensitivities about Israel-bashing given the same consideration as, say, Muslim concerns about associations with terrorism?

I think the author may have a point here. But I believe that the media are running scared of Islam in this country at the moment; the "Muslim voice" at the moment is definitely more vocal and visible than the "Jewish voice".

That Britain, of all places, should be so willing to embrace anti-Semitism's latest incarnation - in the form of demonizing Israel

I call bullshît. Like I said in my first line, being opposed to Israel's policies towards Palestine does not make one anti-Semitic.

One would have to be myopic to deny that all the talk of neoconservative cabals and conspiracies has a distinctly anti-Semitic flavor.

WHAT THE FÃœCK does the FACT of the neo-con takeover of the American government have to do with anti-Semitism?

I'm sorry, but when someone starts throwing around accusations like this, I just don't know what to say. The fact of the matter is that Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is unjust. Why and how is it anti-Semitic to say this?

This is just the silencing of dissent by the use of a buzz-word. I don't know who these Anti-Defamation League people are, but their argument seems to be "Agree with us in the face of the plain facts, or else we'll call you anti-Semitic". Bullshît.

I’m tired of this. I read this political forum from time to time, and every time a poster speaks out against neoconservatives or opposes something Israel is doing, they’re called an anti-semetic by a flock of conservative boarders.

I agree with markfiend on this one.

And when I speak against the politics of the contemporary US government I still like to remember my ex-colleague John Adams wh has retired to Phoenix az, a former member of the US Army, who decided to stay at germany while his daughter was at school as to prevent her becoming a victim of the rather mediocre US school system. Those were HIS words, by the way.
I´m not anti american, but I am anti republican.
I´m not anti semitic, but I am PRO PEACE.
How!
As said elsewhere, it was an ex-ambassador of Israel who called the attack on Lebanon a "comprhensible mistake". I think one can´t put it in shorter terms.

Really bored now.........

I don't like beer, but it's the thought that counts, WW.

What we have there is the americans shouting names at the people pointing out injustices commited by one of their allies. We supported them in stopping the tyranny of Sadam Hussain (not that I support the farce that went on after) but no one called us anti muslim!

I'm sorry, but when an injustice is carried out the fact it was done by Jews doesn't mean the world should turn a blind eye. I also like that fact they mention anti-americanism in the same breath as anti-semitism. Obviously they can't see what they are doing wrong.

weebleswobble wrote:

Really bored now.........

think i join with the beers

markfiend wrote:My first reaction: Being opposed to Israel's policies towards Palestine does not make one anti-Semitic.
From your link:

are Jewish sensitivities about Israel-bashing given the same consideration as, say, Muslim concerns about associations with terrorism?

I think the author may have a point here. But I believe that the media are running scared of Islam in this country at the moment; the "Muslim voice" at the moment is definitely more vocal and visible than the "Jewish voice"

How does this affect your media coverage? ( I know I would be afraid of writing if I believed someone would kill me for it. )

I am horrified by the actions of the Israeli government at present, and the Jewish lobby in America. I have a great deal of sympathy for the Palestnian cause (and recently the Lebanese), and share in a lot of their anger.

However, there is a high likelihood that I actually have a little Jewish, or Moorish, blood in me, from my mother's side. Even if it's the latter, I am very definitely NOT an anti-Semite.

I have expressed my attitude towards the American administration, and certain attitudes in that country. This does not make me anti-people-who-have-a-largely-Northern-European-or-Irish-heritage, that's me too.

Of all the people in the world who have the right to feel persecuted, even when they aren't being, it is probably the Jews. The spectre of the Holocaust will loom large for a long time, and it's very understandable. However, it also provides a climate of paranoia in which an unscrupulous administration can disguise attack as defence. Sound familiar, anyone?

markfiend wrote:This is just the silencing of dissent by the use of a buzz-word.

Why does he always say what I mean to, but better?

boudicca wrote: Of all the people in the world who have the right to feel persecuted, even when they aren't being, it is probably the Jews. The spectre of the Holocaust will loom large for a long time, and it's very understandable. However, it also provides a climate of paranoia in which an unscrupulous administration can disguise attack as defence. Sound familiar, anyone?

I think Israels paranoia isn't completely out of nothingness. They're surrounded by countries whose governements aren't acknowledging Israels mere existence. One of them ist just trying to get the hands on the Bomb.

A part from a heartfelt sympathy with the Jewish people (how could I not) I agree completely that a criticism of Israelian politics is a totally different matter than being anti-semitic.

Not everyone who criticises Israels politics is an anti-semit, but every anti-semit critcises Israel's politics. Therefore we have this odd compliance between Ahmadinejad and German Neo-Nazis.

Dark wrote:I don't like beer, but it's the thought that counts, WW.

wanna jewing gum?

Jewish problem? Looks quite nice actually!

canon docre wrote:I think Israels paranoia isn't completely out of nothingness. They're surrounded by countries whose governements aren't acknowledging Israels mere existence. One of them ist just trying to get the hands on the Bomb.

No, you're quite right, I'm not suggesting any sense the Israelis have of being under threat or persecution isn't genuine. When I talk about paranoia I'm referring more to the kind of attitude expressed in that link - the accusations of anti-Semitism thrown at those (and it is a sizeable majority in Europe at least) who are troubled by the actions of that administration.

Be the pedantic scrote I am, shouldn't this thread be titled Britans problem with spelling Britain

wild bill buttock wrote:Be the pedantic scrote I am, shouldn't this thread be titled Britans problem with spelling Britain

Stoopid Merkins.

I'm very tired of this anti jewish, pro Palestinian tirade that is always the trademark of the new soft left wing, which is only too happy to support palestine or any other Muslim nation just as a jibe towards the US.
I feel sorry for the Palestinians, especially their children; some Israeli actions do go to far but what other choice do they have.

And for all the weeping hearts who just love to milk the Palestinian cause, try and live there if you are gay, black or a woman. I'm sure you'd much prefer Israel......

in any case, britain's real jewish problem is the distinct rise in anti-semitic attacks, reported last week

I find the claim of anti-semitic attacks in Britain a little dubious..for example, the Anglo-Jews aren't a visible minority group by appearance or colour.
Line up ten Britons and play "Guess the Jew", and unless said Jew is Orthodox, it's not going to be an easy one to win, so how would you know who to attack?

DeWinter wrote:I find the claim of anti-semitic attacks in Britain a little dubious..for example, the Anglo-Jews aren't a visible minority group by appearance or colour.
Line up ten Britons and play "Guess the Jew", and unless said Jew is Orthodox, it's not going to be an easy one to win, so how would you know who to attack?

Wait outside the synagogue?

smiscandlon wrote:

DeWinter wrote:I find the claim of anti-semitic attacks in Britain a little dubious..for example, the Anglo-Jews aren't a visible minority group by appearance or colour.
Line up ten Britons and play "Guess the Jew", and unless said Jew is Orthodox, it's not going to be an easy one to win, so how would you know who to attack?

Wait outside the synagogue?

True enough, but places of worship have always attracted nutters, even our local had the "Satanists" breaking in and spraying their pentagrams about. What I was trying to say was the Jewry in England, as far as I remember were unobtrusive and well-integrated. Hardly a subject for attack.

DeWinter wrote:True enough, but places of worship have always attracted nutters

True, in more ways than one...

DeWinter wrote:What I was trying to say was the Jewry in England, as far as I remember were unobtrusive and well-integrated. Hardly a subject for attack.

The Jewish community in Scotland is tiny - around 0.13% of the population (proportionately, more Jews live in Alaska than in Scotland). So I'm not sure I'm really in a position to make much comment about "Britan's Jewish Problem" ... but I'm certainly not aware of the rampant anti-Semitism that the article seems to suggest. I have to agree with markfiend's initial comment though - being opposed to Israel's policies towards Palestine (or Lebanon) does not make one anti-Semitic.

DeWinter wrote: I have to agree with markfiend's initial comment though - being opposed to Israel's policies towards Palestine (or Lebanon) does not make one anti-Semitic.

A fairly obvious point I would have thought, but apparently not!

Israel continually flies in the face of what can be considered acceptable behaviour by any state. State-sponsored assassination of political figures, the quite obvious and appalling disregard for human life (where civilian casualties accounted for the vast majority of total fatalities) evidenced during their latest offensives...

I don't believe you can rightfully justify this kind of behaviour in terms of the actions of the enemy, which is the only argument I ever hear being put forward for it.

"There have been several attacks in Golders Green and Hampstead Garden Suburb in North London, where there is a large Jewish population. La Maison du Café in Golders Green Road was targeted two weeks ago by two young men who threw chairs at the restaurant, punched workers and threatened to kill the owner, Ruth Cohen, with a knife.

Ms Cohen, 34, said: “They asked if it was a Jewish restaurant. They said they were going to kill me and called me a ‘dirty Jew’, a ‘stinking Jew’. One of them had a knife. A colleague came out. They started punching him and throwing chairs.�

For the rest of the article go to:http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 94,00.html

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