Heartland

From various stories this week:

"North Korea said Wednesday it will consider any increased pressure from the United States as "a declaration of a war," a North Korean Foreign Ministry spokesman said, according to North Korea's state-run news agency, KCNA" - CNN.com October 12, 2006

"The United States pushed today for tough U.N. Security Council action against North Korea in response to its claimed nuclear test, circulating a proposed resolution that would impose an embargo on arms or nuclear-related trade and allow states to inspect cargo shipped to or from the reclusive communist country.

The draft resolution, the second proposed by the United States, also would freeze the assets of persons or entities involved in supporting North Korea's nuclear or ballistic missile programs and would ban international travel by such persons.

North Korea's claim of first nuclear test draws condemnation worldwide.

The new resolution stops short of meeting initial Japanese demands for a total embargo on exports from North Korea and a ban against the use of foreign ports and airports by North Korean ships and airplanes. But it does not appear to scale back its tougher provisions enough to address the concerns of China, North Korea's closest ally, which advocates a resolution narrowly focused on weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles. " -WashingtonPost.com Thursday, October 12, 2006

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00836.html

Depends on how you define "punishment". Does the west need to be cognisant of the fact that North Korea has nuclear ambitions? Yes. Do steps need to be taken to make sure that its behaviour in pursuit of these ambitions does not constitute what the US refers to as a "clear and present danger"? Certainly. Are sanctions or military action the right course? No. Sanctions don't work, have never worked, and are unlikely to work against a country that has historically not given a tuppeny damn about what the rest of the world thinks of it.
What is encouraging is that China has expressed concern over NK's actions, although that may have more to do with China trying to ingratiate itself with its western trading partners. As with Iran, the trick will be to bring NK into the NPT fold. NK wants a place at the table, wants to play with the grown-ups. If it truly does have the capability (some reports suggest that they are bluffing about the test), then the sensible thing is to bring it into the nuclear family so that it's actions can be monitored. A unilateral approach by the US that involves sanctions, the threat of military action, or a hardening of policy, will only worsen relations.
We need to deal with the reality that we have, not the reality that we would like. If the reality is that NK has the Bomb, then cool heads must prevail.

EvilBastard wrote:Depends on how you define "punishment". Does the west need to be cognisant of the fact that North Korea has nuclear ambitions? Yes. Do steps need to be taken to make sure that its behaviour in pursuit of these ambitions does not constitute what the US refers to as a "clear and present danger"? Certainly. Are sanctions or military action the right course? No. Sanctions don't work, have never worked, and are unlikely to work against a country that has historically not given a tuppeny damn about what the rest of the world thinks of it.
What is encouraging is that China has expressed concern over NK's actions, although that may have more to do with China trying to ingratiate itself with its western trading partners. As with Iran, the trick will be to bring NK into the NPT fold. NK wants a place at the table, wants to play with the grown-ups. If it truly does have the capability (some reports suggest that they are bluffing about the test), then the sensible thing is to bring it into the nuclear family so that it's actions can be monitored. A unilateral approach by the US that involves sanctions, the threat of military action, or a hardening of policy, will only worsen relations.
We need to deal with the reality that we have, not the reality that we would like. If the reality is that NK has the Bomb, then cool heads must prevail.

Nope.

EvilBastard wrote:the sensible thing is to bring it into the nuclear family

Pun not intended I assume?

Otherwise bang on.

From the commies to the towel-heads and back again
Guess the tea break didn't work.

For failing to detonate a nuke ?
If they did violate the non-proliferation treaty, of course they should be punished. But so should other countries.

No, not before the complete disarmerment of the rest of the world. When we are free of doomsday devices then we can get rightious about others.

The Revolution starts at home.

boudicca wrote:From the commies to the towel-heads and back again
Guess the tea break didn't work.

Yeah, it's grinding me down as well Claire, can't we have a Politics, Religion and Bollocks! section, Boss?... Mod?...

I will of course be the top poster in the Bollocks! area

Maisey wrote:The Revolution starts at home.

Will it be televised?

James Blast wrote:

boudicca wrote:From the commies to the towel-heads and back again
Guess the tea break didn't work.

Yeah, it's grinding me down as well Claire, can't we have a Politics, Religion and Bollocks! section, Boss?... Mod?...

I will of course be the top poster in the Bollocks! area

Quit using ORANGE!.....

You can't resist can you....

9while9 wrote:You can't resist can you....

what's the HEX vaules of that?

Would the last one to leave the country please turn off the lights?

yes of course
orange or nuke is pretty fine

weebleswobble wrote:Would the last one to leave the country please turn off the lights?

Are we off to Canada?

9while9 wrote:Quit using ORANGE!.....

No Orange!

boudicca wrote:

weebleswobble wrote:Would the last one to leave the country please turn off the lights?

Are we off to Canada?

It's aboot time

EvilBastard wrote:Depends on how you define "punishment". Does the west need to be cognisant of the fact that North Korea has nuclear ambitions? Yes. Do steps need to be taken to make sure that its behaviour in pursuit of these ambitions does not constitute what the US refers to as a "clear and present danger"? Certainly. Are sanctions or military action the right course? No. Sanctions don't work, have never worked, and are unlikely to work against a country that has historically not given a tuppeny damn about what the rest of the world thinks of it.
What is encouraging is that China has expressed concern over NK's actions, although that may have more to do with China trying to ingratiate itself with its western trading partners. As with Iran, the trick will be to bring NK into the NPT fold. NK wants a place at the table, wants to play with the grown-ups. If it truly does have the capability (some reports suggest that they are bluffing about the test), then the sensible thing is to bring it into the nuclear family so that it's actions can be monitored. A unilateral approach by the US that involves sanctions, the threat of military action, or a hardening of policy, will only worsen relations.
We need to deal with the reality that we have, not the reality that we would like. If the reality is that NK has the Bomb, then cool heads must prevail.

I agree. What do you believe would improve relations with them? Does this look like a no win situation to you?

What Dark said.

I think Sweden and Switzerland should punish North Korea. Severely.

Every country that does tests like these should be punished.
Now and in the past.

If it is not for destroying mankind; it is for destroying nature...

Bora Bora knows everything about it thanks to the French...

Ozpat wrote:Every country that does tests like these should be punished.
Now and in the past.

If it is not for destroying mankind; it is for destroying nature...

Bora Bora knows everything about it thanks to the French...

way to go pat

although I think we should get rig of Mr. President first

North Korea are trying to get taken seriously at the negotiating table. The fact that the nuclear test didn't appear to work properly has worked against them.

To explain: the 0.8 kT yield measured is way short of the expected 10-15 kT for a simple "gun-type" warhead. (See Wiki-clicky. It is assumed that North Korea doesn't have the technology to build an implosion-type warhead yet.)

It's a fair assumption that the problem was with the firing mechanism; if you don't get the "bullet" to hit the "target" fast enough, the nuclear explosion uses far less of the fissile fuel, blasting the rest of it away, and results in a far weaker explosion.

Even though the warhead didn't develop its full expected yield, I think it's fair to say that NK will learn from the mistakes. This was a test after all.

Even if NK does build a successful gun-type nuclear warhead, how are they going to deliver it? Little Boy weighed 4 tonnes, and had to be dropped from the huge B-29 Superfortress.

They have a long way to go before being a genuine threat.

Thing is, how do you punish North Korea without hurting it's people, who had no say in Kim's latest lunacy? I suppose the best we can do is hope things stay in status quo untill the imbecilic little midget croaks.

DeWinter wrote:Thing is, how do you punish North Korea without hurting it's people, who had no say in Kim's latest lunacy?

Stop selling them weapons for a start.