Heartland

Well, if they followed the template of Amsterdam, some of this may never of occurred. I think it's now time to take a long hard look at revising the laws on prostitution - make it legal and move it to safer areas. Let entire streets become havens for this trade well away from children and families, similar to the set up in the red light area of the dam And may be get the ball rolling by starting with Château de Ramona - I've even got a spare red light bulb from an old real-effect fire I used to have.

And in the words of the late great Phil Lynot of Thin Lizzy:
There's a killer on the loose again
A killer on the loose
There's a killer on the loose again
A ladykiller on the loose

Now I'm not trying to be nasty
Or I'm not trying to make you scared
But there's a killer on the loose
Or haven't you heard
He'll be walking around this town
Just about midnight
Yes, that's Ipswich Town
That's right
That's right

Erudite wrote:Whatever this guy's motive (and I don't think there's any doubt the killer will turn out to be male) it only serves to prove why prostitution should be legal in this country. Whatever moral view point you want to take, men will always be willing to pay for sex and there will be women desperate enough to supply it. At least with state sanctioned brothels these women would have some protection, which is more than they've got walking the streets.

Thing is, would you like to live/work near one of these state-sanctioned brothels? Or like your girlfriend/daughter to do so? Prostitution doesn't usually lead to an area becoming a more pleasant place to live. Prostitutes and their clients are very rarely the type of people you'd want much contact with. I suppose one arguement is to situate them in out of the way places, but I can't see the village of Chipping Sodbury being any happier about a brothel being plonked into their midst than they were about an asylum-seeker hostel, and I can't rightly blame them.
Also, presumably a state-sanctioned brothel would result in the income being taxed, neatly killing off one of the main benefits of doing it. There would still be women working out of their houses or on the streets to avoid it, so I doubt it'd make any difference to a chap/chapess like this one.

So you're happy to let these women get killed just because you're worried about "the type of people you'd want much contact with"?

You can point out where I said anything resembling that anytime you like.

My arguement was that state-sanctioned brothels wouldn't have spared us anything like the current killing spree, as there would be large numbers of prostitutes who wouldn't work from them, for tax, chemical dependency, or many other issues. I disagree with state-sanctioned brothels as I wouldn't want to live near one myself, and I doubt anyone else would either.

DeWinter wrote:I disagree with state-sanctioned brothels as I wouldn't want to live near one myself, and I doubt anyone else would either.

DeWinter wrote:I disagree with state-sanctioned brothels as I wouldn't want to live near one myself, and I doubt anyone else would either.

at least one person you all admire very much lived in the middle of the red light district. Guess who?
These areas are sometimes amongst the hippest in town.

Speaking from a country with legal prostitution, it's true however that even if you have shed lots of brothels, you can't keep the girls out of the streets. The best thing about state-owned brothels would be to cut off exploitation through pimps (< scum of the earth if you'd ask me) but it wouldn't stop any serial-killer, no.

Happy Birthday btw.

canon docre wrote: Speaking from a country with legal prostitution, it's true however that even if you have shed lots of brothels, you can't keep the girls out of the streets. The best thing about state-owned brothels would be to cut off exploitation through pimps (< scum of the earth if you'd ask me) but it wouldn't stop any serial-killer, no.

Happy Birthday btw.

Fank 'oo!
(For the birthday wishes and actually reading what I said!)
[/b]

I did read what you wrote. Your initial argument against brothels...

DeWinter wrote:Thing is, would you like to live/work near one of these state-sanctioned brothels? Or like your girlfriend/daughter to do so? Prostitution doesn't usually lead to an area becoming a more pleasant place to live. Prostitutes and their clients are very rarely the type of people you'd want much contact with. I suppose one arguement is to situate them in out of the way places, but I can't see the village of Chipping Sodbury being any happier about a brothel being plonked into their midst than they were about an asylum-seeker hostel, and I can't rightly blame them.

... was entirely NIMBYism.

thats as maybe, but it was honest NIMBYism

DeWinter wrote:

canon docre wrote: Speaking from a country with legal prostitution, it's true however that even if you have shed lots of brothels, you can't keep the girls out of the streets. The best thing about state-owned brothels would be to cut off exploitation through pimps (< scum of the earth if you'd ask me) but it wouldn't stop any serial-killer, no.

Happy Birthday btw.

Fank 'oo!
(For the birthday wishes and actually reading what I said!)
[/b]

well well well, I certainly diagree with you as I'm actually for state-sanctioned brothels in order to cut short pimp business.

You can't kill the business itself then at least let the right person profit from it - namely the persons who sell their godamn bodies for the wankers instead of the jewellery-clad needless pimps... Grrrrooooaaaarrrr.
There you see, Birthday-Boy you got my right in the rant-mode.....


P.S. what exactly is NIMBYism?

Not In My Back Yard

A common complaint of the English.

markfiend wrote:Not In My Back Yard

A common complaint of the English.

Great that you've a word for it. Although NIMBYism is very common over here too, no one was inventive enough to come up with a own word for it.

Maybe the reason is, that we simply don't have so many backyards....

Erudite wrote:Whatever this guy's motive (and I don't think there's any doubt the killer will turn out to be male) it only serves to prove why prostitution should be legal in this country. Whatever moral view point you want to take, men will always be willing to pay for sex and there will be women desperate enough to supply it. At least with state sanctioned brothels these women would have some protection, which is more than they've got walking the streets.
And for those desperate to feed their addictions, some decent drug rehabilitation programmes wouldn't go amiss, rather than jail time (because we all know how difficult it is to get drugs in prison).

Clearly nutters like this will always find an opportunity, but sometimes it seems as though society goes out of its way to ensure there's a supply of victims.

Perhaps if society made an effort to evolve into a place where prostitution and drug rehab programmes aren't needed then society may become a more peaceful place. Obeying instincts is what makes us more animal than human.

Er, when were humans ever anything other than a species of animal? Not even a very good one, we've not even got them wings yet.

I've yet to read, anywhere, a remotely decent argument for not legalising / sanctioning brothels / prostitution.

Great that you've a word for it. Although NIMBYism is very common over here too, no one was inventive enough to come up with a own word for it.

Maybe the reason is, that we simply don't have so many backyards.... [/quote]

.....or not be able to pronounce it!

Arch Deviant wrote:

Erudite wrote:Whatever this guy's motive (and I don't think there's any doubt the killer will turn out to be male) it only serves to prove why prostitution should be legal in this country. Whatever moral view point you want to take, men will always be willing to pay for sex and there will be women desperate enough to supply it. At least with state sanctioned brothels these women would have some protection, which is more than they've got walking the streets.
And for those desperate to feed their addictions, some decent drug rehabilitation programmes wouldn't go amiss, rather than jail time (because we all know how difficult it is to get drugs in prison).

Clearly nutters like this will always find an opportunity, but sometimes it seems as though society goes out of its way to ensure there's a supply of victims.

Perhaps if society made an effort to evolve into a place where prostitution and drug rehab programmes aren't needed then society may become a more peaceful place. Obeying instincts is what makes us more animal than human.

*cough*... never heard of prostitution and drug abuse amongst animals.

DeWinter wrote:You can point out where I said anything resembling that anytime you like.

My arguement was that state-sanctioned brothels wouldn't have spared us anything like the current killing spree, as there would be large numbers of prostitutes who wouldn't work from them, for tax, chemical dependency, or many other issues. I disagree with state-sanctioned brothels as I wouldn't want to live near one myself, and I doubt anyone else would either.

I'm with you on this DeWinter.

Although MarkFiend is a good person and very intelligent, I've noticed that he tends to read into things. A bit knee jerk,
instead of taking things at face value.

But then we all make mistakes.

Badass wrote:Oh yes, i once saw a movie about bonobo monkeys. the chief monkey wanted to f**k a girl monkey, but she refused. after he returned with a fruit and gave it to her, she let him bang her....

Adelie penguins are known to trade sex for pebbles in places where pebbles are rare. Apparently boy penguins are stupid enough to pay pebbles for heavy flirting. Now say "pernicious perverted penguin pebble prostitutes" seven times after a couple of drinks...

What ever else this debate has become...it sure as hell ain't funny

five girls have died for this debate to finally be discussed in anything remotely close to serious...that makes us all sound fairly flippant and unattached to the problem of drug habits and finding ways to pay for them...

some of us have had drug habits (myself included) and the fact that we're here typing away on our pooters doesn't lessen the feeling of There but for the grace of #### go I (insert word which makes the most sense to you)...those girls were people...they have families/children and they were all trying to survive in this world as best they could...we should not be smiling.

of all the recent posts...this is the one sentence that we should address from the streets of our towns and cities...look up before we look down

Planet Dave wrote:I've yet to read, anywhere, a remotely decent argument for not legalising / sanctioning brothels / prostitution.

Planet Dave

< Self-censored otherwise it could spark off further bad taste jokes in the wrong forum >

DeWinter wrote: Thing is, would you like to live/work near one of these state-sanctioned brothels? Or like your girlfriend/daughter to do so? Prostitution doesn't usually lead to an area becoming a more pleasant place to live. Prostitutes and their clients are very rarely the type of people you'd want much contact with. I suppose one arguement is to situate them in out of the way places, but I can't see the village of Chipping Sodbury being any happier about a brothel being plonked into their midst than they were about an asylum-seeker hostel, and I can't rightly blame them.

While I’d like to think that my fictional daughter would have other career options open to her, I don’t actually see any crime in prostitution. It is only objectionable when it is involuntary, used to feed an addiction, or involves children. As a business transaction between two consenting adults it’s not greatly different from any other service. I’m certainly not about to pass judgement on the women or their clients.
In countries like Germany women will work in the sex industry for a few years in order to get some money behind them – to finance degrees, homes etc. In short, it’s a question of supply and demand. As long as the demand is there why shouldn’t women exploit it to their best advantage? No one is saying it’s pleasurable or pleasant, but as long as it’s free choice, suitably policed and carried out in as safe an environment as possible, I say good luck to them.
I’ve no time for the moral hypocrisy that is so rife in the UK, particularly a law that criminalises women for selling sex when it is not illegal for a man to visit a brothel. As always, the double standard exists.

To be honest, I think this subject should be debated on another thread. As has been pointed out elsewhere, we’re getting off the topic. Five women are dead. That’s five human beings who have parents, brothers, sisters, who are never going to see them again. That’s something their families will have to live with for the rest of their lives – no easy thing. I only hope this maniac gets caught before someone else dies, but sadly there may already be other victims out there.

9while9 wrote:Although MarkFiend is a good person and very intelligent, I've noticed that he tends to read into things. A bit knee jerk,
instead of taking things at face value.

But then we all make mistakes.

Thanks for the compliment, and yes, I'll admit that.

Erudite wrote:To be honest, I think this subject should be debated on another thread. As has been pointed out elsewhere, we’re getting off the topic. Five women are dead. That’s five human beings who have parents, brothers, sisters, who are never going to see them again. That’s something their families will have to live with for the rest of their lives – no easy thing. I only hope this maniac gets caught before someone else dies, but sadly there may already be other victims out there.

Yes, it might be a good idea to split this topic. I'll try to work out which posts belong with which thread; give me a minute...

(locked while I split it.)

(unlocked again)

I just managed to post on the last thread before it was split, Go Team Me..
Erudite:
Maybe that was my fault for not being clearer. I don't mean would you like your theoretical wife/daughter to WORK in a brothel, just work or live NEAR one. Most women who have the misfortune to do so now can tell you some pretty unpleasant stories about being solicited on a regular basis by the clients of the local prostitutes, and they are rarely pleasant charachters. Because they are now legal, won't make them anymore salubrious. In fact I'd go so far as to say their very nature is part of the appeal.

Markfiend, you are neatly ignoring where you said I'd rather see these women dead than plying their trade near me, which I did not say. I said that a state-sanctioned brothel wouldn't have protected them, and I gave reasons. And yes, I sure as hell wouldn't want a brothel near where I lived. You don't object, then fine, have them near your home, I swear I'll never use their services, so no NIMBY-ism.

DeWinter wrote:I
just managed to post on the last thread before it was split, Go Team Me..
Erudite:
Maybe that was my fault for not being clearer. I don't mean would you like your theoretical wife/daughter to WORK in a brothel, just work or live NEAR one. Most women who have the misfortune to do so now can tell you some pretty unpleasant stories about being solicited on a regular basis by the clients of the local prostitutes, and they are rarely pleasant charachters. Because they are now legal, won't make them anymore salubrious. In fact I'd go so far as to say their very nature is part of the appeal.

Mmmmh, every day 1,2 Mio gents use this special service. (in Germany) Don't think they're all nutters, spree-killer, criminals, rapists etc.

on the contrary, most "normal" men have been once or are even regulars at prostitutes. I dare say, if you'd make up a poll on HL. 90% of the males wouldn't object going if it would be legal/easy to go....

or what do you think?

Personally? I think if you take advantage of someone's financial desperation to use their body for your own gratification, you're the lowest of the low. I would be unable to justify it to myself, so no, I would never use one.