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So we're BRIBING Korea to give up nukes?
Posted: 13 Feb 2007, 12:26
by smiscandlon
Yahoo News wrote:Nuclear weapons in North Korea will be disabled and a crucial reactor complex shut down as part of a landmark deal. The agreement came after marathon talks held by six nations in Beijing.
International inspectors will also be granted access under the initial disarmament plan.
Under the agreement, North Korea must take the steps within 60 days and in return it will receive 50,000 tonnes of fuel oil or economic aid of equal value.
It will receive another one million tonnes of fuel oil or equivalent when it takes further steps to disable its nuclear capabilities.
This includes providing a complete inventory of its plutonium - the fuel used in Pyongyang's first nuclear test blast in October.
The two Koreas, the US, Japan, Russia and China reached the deal after gruelling talks that began on Thursday.
The plan represents the first steps in implementing a joint statement signed by the countries in September 2005.
Posted: 13 Feb 2007, 12:36
by Obviousman
Oil for food program, anyone?
Posted: 13 Feb 2007, 13:02
by markfiend
I'd rather North Korea got a few million dollars' worth of aid than they throw a nuke at Japan...
Posted: 13 Feb 2007, 13:06
by smiscandlon
markfiend wrote:I'd rather North Korea got a few million dollars' worth of aid than they throw a nuke at Japan...
Granted, and I'm sure it probably is the best resolution all round.
But might it set a precedent?
Posted: 13 Feb 2007, 13:35
by markfiend
Well, probably, but what's the alternative? We all know that the "we'll never negotiate with terrorists" line either is a lie or leads to long, bloody and pointless wars...
And anyway, it's obvious that Iran is the next target on the "axis of evil"
Posted: 13 Feb 2007, 13:38
by Obviousman
markfiend wrote:And anyway, it's obvious that Iran is the next target on the "axis of evil"
The only way to keep yourself safe is developing nukes because the idea alone scares the hell out of everyone mostly anyway, quite obvious why they go for that then I'd say?
Posted: 13 Feb 2007, 14:43
by Ozpat
So in half a year they can ask for more......
It is all about money...
Posted: 13 Feb 2007, 14:48
by Badlander
Let's hope this time aid goes to those who need it the most... but I'm not so optimistic.
It might not be the best decision, but it's not the worst case scenario either.
Posted: 13 Feb 2007, 14:51
by sultan2075
I'm pretty sure that the last time they got a few million dollars in aid they diverted their resources to develop the nuclear program that they claimed to not be developing at the time. I guess my question is this: it didn't work last time, why would anyone think it will work this time? It's like the rest of the world is the wife of an abusive husband (North Korea) who keeps thinking "Oh, this time he's really changed...."
Posted: 13 Feb 2007, 15:13
by James Blast
sultan2075 wrote:I guess my question is this: it didn't work last time, why would anyone think it will work this time?
Because we're winning the War on Terror.
Posted: 13 Feb 2007, 15:39
by King of Byblos
smiscandlon wrote:markfiend wrote:I'd rather North Korea got a few million dollars' worth of aid than they throw a nuke at Japan...
Granted, and I'm sure it probably is the best resolution all round.
But might it set a precedent?
...and that would be bad because?
Posted: 13 Feb 2007, 15:46
by King of Byblos
James Blast wrote:sultan2075 wrote:I guess my question is this: it didn't work last time, why would anyone think it will work this time?
Because we're winning the War on Terror.
...well i'm not scared so the war must be going fairly well?
the other side of the coin is Iran, sounds like they are about to announce a fait-acompli? going nuclear is it bad?
part of me wonders if the USA are just s**t themselves about whould happen if the middle east didn't need to be reliant on oil?
Posted: 13 Feb 2007, 15:50
by markfiend
America's nuclear non-proliferation history isn't exactly exemplary, is it?
Paging Mordechai Vanunu...
Posted: 13 Feb 2007, 17:45
by christophe
Call me a pessimist but I don’t see a happy ending.
This oil/money is not going to stop anyone from making more nukes, is it not now it will be in the future. Not until we have a reasonable discussion, don’t forget most of our power comes from nuclear power plants. We would have to give them up before we could ask any other nation to stop there own research.
Posted: 13 Feb 2007, 18:25
by weebleswobble
They did offer a free silver bullet tour but they demanded an '85 line up
Posted: 13 Feb 2007, 19:21
by Zuma
weebleswobble wrote:They did offer a free silver bullet tour but they demanded an '85 line up
Or the SSV one?
Is it too cynical to think it's simply no resources or budget for any other option...
Posted: 13 Feb 2007, 19:40
by Badlander
sultan2075 wrote:I'm pretty sure that the last time they got a few million dollars in aid they diverted their resources to develop the nuclear program that they claimed to not be developing at the time.
Not exactly : iirc it goes back to the 2003 famine. North Korea was then offered international aid in the form of food, which was given only to those who supported the regime. Political opponents were left starving (which is a gross case of discrimination, and hence a violation of international human rights norms).
christophe wrote:Not until we have a reasonable discussion, don’t forget most of our power comes from nuclear power plants.
Nope : it still comes from oil. Which is no better btw.
Posted: 13 Feb 2007, 21:00
by christophe
Badlander wrote:christophe wrote:Not until we have a reasonable discussion, don’t forget most of our power comes from nuclear power plants.
Nope : it still comes from oil. Which is no better btw.
yep sorry, I know but what I wanted to say was we use the technology....
Posted: 13 Feb 2007, 22:24
by sultan2075
Badlander wrote:
Not exactly : iirc it goes back to the 2003 famine. North Korea was then offered international aid in the form of food, which was given only to those who supported the regime. The majority of North Koreans were left starving (which is a gross case of discrimination, and hence a violation of international human rights norms).
I actually had in mind the Albright negotiated "agreed framework" of the late 1990's, in which the US and the West--if I recall correctly--essentially tried the same sort of bribery. It didn't work then, and I don't think it will work now. Oh, and I made a correction to your comment
Kim Jong Il is an evil man; have no doubt about it. His population is starving to death, and the death toll is likely much greater than we know. The entire country is a Stalinist death camp.