Heartland

Today I was having a look at the list of Dj's at this April's Whitby goth weekend.As well as some bloke called Cruel Brittania(I've heard of him) there was somebody called House of Voodoo.I clicked on their website and subsequently on to a few of their playlists;I knew about six tunes and only a couple of them would bother me from the bar to the dancefloor.I must be getting old and out of touch,so I clicks onto their photo galleries from some of their events-Surprise surprise,there is about 10 people at each "Event".I wonder why?

But this phenomenom is not unique to House of Voodoo,Goth DJ's are a bizarre breed that specialise in playing the most obscure music in a misguided attempt to show how cool they are.Meanwhile the punters(ie Me) sit bored rigid and never go back again.Then the self indulgent pratts start moaning about lack of support when their nights get shut down.

Now far be it from me to point out the bleeding obvious but most people are into goth these days for NOSTALGIA.They want to boogie to the tunes of their mis-spent youth, they want the Temple of loves,the Wastelands,The snake dances,the blue waters,the Vengeances and the Liberators.They ain't interested in some deathrock revival in London,the latest rocked up 80's synthpop cover or the newest track from Wumpscut or Assemblage 23.

Speak to most ex 80's goths and they'll all tell you the reason they ain't goths anymore is because the music at goth nights these days ain't goth.

I'm luckier than most as the club I go to (Hex in the city and that Cruel Brittannia bloke) Sticks for the most part to "Trad" goth and alternative 80's,the steady stream of 30 somethings coming back week after week and the fact its coming on for its 5th year speaks for itself.

So my advice to goth DJ's is to climb out of your arses and give the punters what they want,THEY ARE THERE TO BE ENTERTAINED NOT EDUCATED and if they ain't dancing it doesn't mean they are all tired,not in the mood or "a difficult crowd" it means they don't like the music you are playing and sooner or later they'll vote with their feet leaving you with another casualty of "lack of support".

What he said

I am very fond of (make that - have live and breathed for the past decade) the likes of Siouxsie and Joy Division (if not a the Neph and the Mish), and I'm not enamoured with a lot of the glowstick-waving stuff (though I do like a lot of the stuff that preceeded it, Front 242 etc, and I would much rather dance to Covenant or VNV Nation than some bog-standard pub goth band)...

But, I SO TOTALLY disagree with you

Few phrases depress me more than "Trad Goth" - it stands in opposition to just about everything that I have ever found appealing about so-called "gothic" music in the first place... i.e. that it was innovative and made by people creative enough to happily draw influences from all kinds of places.

I do think it's important to understand the history and origin of the music you like, but if "goth" has become nothing more than a bunch of sad old blokes with beer bellies digging out their old poet shirts once a week in a desperate attempt to hold on to their youth, then I only hope those who say it's dead are right.

I dunno.

If I wanna shift my butt on a dancefloor, generally the precise style of music doesn't matter too much to me, so long as it's got a good groove, isn't too embarrasingly handbaggy, and there's a sufficient quota of young ladies around for me to make a total eejit of myself in front of.

As a regular whitby goer I agree that the music at the pavilion (main event) can be to say the least doggey!
This is in part because most dj sets are just to fill time between the bands and also because WGW aims to be different (ie not many goth nights outside london play Deathrock at all) and also not be too serious.

If you want to go to a Goth club nite while at whitby i recomemd you get up to Whitby a day early and go to creamy on the thursday. details bellow

CREAMY

GOTH * EBM * ALTERNATIVE * 80's, n stuff!

DJ's DARKSTONES, + [Whitby's own] - DJ CRAIG

THURSDAY 26TH October
8PM - MIDNIGHT
Entry £4

Proceeds to Charity

METROPOLE HOTEL, ARGYLE ROAD, WHITBY

If I look at a number of contemporaries I can only comment on WBB`s words as "tilt". Not really many newcommers are able to keep up with the old heroes.
Sadly so.
And there even some old heroes have to admit defeat when it comes to innovative ideas. Some even go out and ask fans to make videos for them.

boudicca wrote:I am very fond of (make that - have live and breathed for the past decade) the likes of Siouxsie and Joy Division (if not a the Neph and the Mish), and I'm not enamoured with a lot of the glowstick-waving stuff (though I do like a lot of the stuff that preceeded it, Front 242 etc, and I would much rather dance to Covenant or VNV Nation than some bog-standard pub goth band)...

But, I SO TOTALLY disagree with you

Few phrases depress me more than "Trad Goth" - it stands in opposition to just about everything that I have ever found appealing about so-called "gothic" music in the first place... i.e. that it was innovative and made by people creative enough to happily draw influences from all kinds of places.

I do think it's important to understand the history and origin of the music you like, but if "goth" has become nothing more than a bunch of sad old blokes with beer bellies digging out their old poet shirts once a week in a desperate attempt to hold on to their youth, then I only hope those who say it's dead are right.

But you're a young lass and we are old farts

I think its just a question of balance...as psyedo crew at the local goth club and DJ of sorts I would like to point out its about timing.

The openinghour or so is always full of sober people more interested with catching up with people than dancing...pulling out classics at this point is a waste of time. This is the education hour.

The middle chunk is where I agree, play exactly what people want to hear and they will dance.

The ending phase is when people are so pissed they will dance regardless, I call this the industrial hour.

The last half hour is when you can get away with anything from the clash to the worsels.

These are my thoughts on DJing, and I hope they are accurate, because I have to fill up a dancfloor on friday night.

boudicca wrote: Few phrases depress me more than "Trad Goth" - it stands in opposition to just about everything that I have ever found appealing about so-called "gothic" music in the first place... i.e. that it was innovative and made by people creative enough to happily draw influences from all kinds of places.

I do think it's important to understand the history and origin of the music you like, but if "goth" has become nothing more than a bunch of sad old blokes with beer bellies digging out their old poet shirts once a week in a desperate attempt to hold on to their youth, then I only hope those who say it's dead are right.

She may be a "young lass" but she's got a valid point.

What I liked to do the few times I was a DJ myself was play unusual and unexpected songs from the big ones : Burn from Newcastle 85, FotN's Dust (live version), the For her light medley in its entirety, some seldom played Skinny Puppy, etc.
And don't stick to just "pure" goth, that's dead boring.

But in no way the same old songs over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

Not sure what age you become an 'old fart' (or when the lasses stop being 'young'.....) but whilst I prefer the older 'classic' goth stuff, I do like a good mix of the new as well.

As Maisey said, its a question of balance.

Given the size of the scene outside of the main cities, I dont think most goth/industrial/alternative clubs can afford to become to specialised in just one genre and need to cater to all tastes to ensure a good sized crowd each night.

And if every tune was one you liked, when would you get to the bar? (or have time to drink it!).

As an example, heres the setlist from my local club last month setlist
Caters for most tastes at some point.

(and good luck on Friday, Maisey!)

Maisey wrote: The ending phase is when people are so pissed they will dance regardless, I call this the industrial hour.

You've got quite a bizarre notion of industrial.

My idea of DJing ?
Get loose.
Pump up the volume.
Lots of dry ice.
Lots of strobe lights.
Get them blind, dumb, and deaf.

Ministry - Stigmata ®
Sisters Of Mercy - 1969 ®
Combichrist - What The F**k Is Wrong With You?
Marilyn Manson - Angel With The Scabbed WIngs
Front 242 - Headhunter ®

DJ CovenAlex 12.45am - 1.30am
Frontline Assembly - Future Fail
Apoptygma Berzerk - Love Never Dies
Nitzer Ebb - Murderous
Frontline Assembly - Storm (feat. Jean-Luc DeMeyer)
Sheep on Drugs - Catch 22
Cyan - San Diego
Killing Joke - Loose Cannon
Siouxsie & The Banshees - Cannons

Last hour or so, nearly pure industrial, so everyone can stomp along in an absinthe fuelled haze.

wild bill buttock wrote:Now far be it from me to point out the bleeding obvious but most people are into goth these days for NOSTALGIA.They want to boogie to the tunes of their mis-spent youth, they want the Temple of loves,the Wastelands,The snake dances,the blue waters,the Vengeances and the Liberators.They ain't interested in some deathrock revival in London,the latest rocked up 80's synthpop cover or the newest track from Wumpscut or Assemblage 23.

Speak to most ex 80's goths and they'll all tell you the reason they ain't goths anymore is because the music at goth nights these days ain't goth.

Newp. Bzzzzt! Wrong!

I'd actually look forward to a "deathrock revival" (there's a club night in Chi that's all Batcave-esque, but I haven't been, so I can't give a review), and I pretty much can only dance to the likes of :wumpscut: and Assemblage 23 these days (when I'm bothered to go out clubbing at all - and I ain't talking about wee baby seals, either). I'm not g*ff anymore, because I can't stand listening to most of the old stuff, and the stuff that supposedly constitutes "g*ff" these days makes my skin crawl. UGH! I drifted from g*ff into industrial, I guess, because I never wanted to hear pithy synths and wailing bints (as you lot call 'em) again, pretty much.

I "morph", I suppose. Case in point: these days, I'm into weird Bulgarian dark folk music, "post-rock," and drone/drone-doom metal! Sure, sometimes I'll have a wave of nostalgia and a hankering to hear the "golden oldies" - and when that happens, I fire up the ol' iTunes and the Siouxsie, you know what I mean? I don't wanna hear that stuff out at clubs anymore. Friends of mine here in Chi have New Wave/g*ff nights at a well-known local club, and on the rare occasion that I find myself there, I don't really feel like dancing at all. I kind of just sit there and nod and sing along - which I could've done for free, at home. No thanks.

weebleswobble wrote:But you're a young lass and we are old farts

Yeah, but *I'm* an "old fart" too - so what's your excuse?

SomeKindOfStranger wrote:As an example, heres the setlist from my local club last month setlist
Caters for most tastes at some point.

Ahhh! Not bad, but your cohort CovenAlex's stuff's more up my alley; no offense intended!

Maisey wrote:

Ministry - Stigmata ®
Sisters Of Mercy - 1969 ®
Combichrist - What The F**k Is Wrong With You?
Marilyn Manson - Angel With The Scabbed WIngs
Front 242 - Headhunter ®

DJ CovenAlex 12.45am - 1.30am
Frontline Assembly - Future Fail
Apoptygma Berzerk - Love Never Dies
Nitzer Ebb - Murderous
Frontline Assembly - Storm (feat. Jean-Luc DeMeyer)
Sheep on Drugs - Catch 22
Cyan - San Diego
Killing Joke - Loose Cannon
Siouxsie & The Banshees - Cannons

Last hour or so, nearly pure industrial, so everyone can stomp along in an absinthe fuelled haze.

On this occaision yes, but Nephilimbabe and Covenalex alternate set times each month, so next month Nephilimbabe has the last hour...which usually becomes a dodgy eighties set!!

SINsister wrote:

SomeKindOfStranger wrote:As an example, heres the setlist from my local club last month setlist
Caters for most tastes at some point.

Ahhh! Not bad, but your cohort CovenAlex's stuff's more up my alley; no offense intended!

No offense - Im not one of the DJs!

(but Alex does play Avril Lavine, A lot......)

Nephilimbabe gets my vote.

SomeKindOfStranger wrote:No offense - Im not one of the DJs!

(but Alex does play Avril Lavine, A lot......)

Aha! Ok, I misunderstood - no worries!


...and with that knowledge about Alex's questionable music taste, I may just have to go with Nephilimbabe, after all!

scotty wrote:Nephilimbabe gets my vote.

Mine too....usually....

but my point was the mix that these guys put together and the fact that in a town this size a pure 'industrial' or pure 'goth' club just wouldnt get the same support. This way everyones happy...and they may even hear something they like from another genre.

SINsister wrote:

SomeKindOfStranger wrote:No offense - Im not one of the DJs!

(but Alex does play Avril Lavine, A lot......)

Aha! Ok, I misunderstood - no worries!


...and with that knowledge about Alex's questionable music taste, I may just have to go with Nephilimbabe, after all!

..but he likes adam and the ants!!!

rock and a hard place eh?

SomeKindOfStranger wrote:..but he likes adam and the ants!!!

rock and a hard place eh?

No sh*t. Hmmmm...

I'm not saying DJ's should never play new stuff,far from it.Before I started on my current spell of goffiness 6 years ago I'd never heard the likes of Covenant,VNV or Suspiria, all now some of my favourite bands and currently I'm really into She wants revenge.But I don't want to go to an event advertised as a goth night and have to sit through hours of stuff I've never heard in my life.Its f**king boring and I'd rather stay in.

I think the problem is that some DJ's in their enthusiasm for new/obscure stuff forget that their role as a club DJ is to assist people to enjoy themselves and to not try be the new John Peel.Even the great man himself used to play the "old classics" during his PA's.

There has to be a happy medium-Which I'm afraid has to be mainly material people are familiar with,with some newer/less well known stuff thrown in occasionally,its a question of balance.

Also I think Maisey's sticking ridgedly to an hour of one genre and then an hour of another is also the wrong approach, I've seen rooms cleared faster than a fart with pumps on when a room full of happily glowstick waving whooly heads is hit with an hour of "Trad" goth and vice-versa.

And you'll notice boudicca that I put "trad-goth" in inverted commas.I f**king hate the term myself.But what else do you call it?

wild bill buttock wrote:I've seen rooms cleared faster than a fart with pumps on...

ROFLMAO!!!

SINsister wrote:

weebleswobble wrote:But you're a young lass and we are old farts

Yeah, but *I'm* an "old fart" too - so what's your excuse?

I Hate Everything