Heartland

I didn't want to derail "the Scottish Thread" (as the thespians refer to it) so I thought I'd start a separate one about the English council elections.

Brighton & Hove shifted from Labour to No Overall Control, but most interestingly, the Green Party increased their 6 councillors to 12:

Party:___________Prev:__+/-:___Now:
Conservative_______20____6_____26
Labour____________23___-10_____13
Green____________6_____6______12
Liberal Democrat____3____-1______2
Others____________2____-1______1

Looks like Labour got hit due to their national policies, and since a lot of people who lived through the endemic unemployment and economic despair of England under the Tories in the 1980s would rather prise their own fingernails off than vote Tory (me being amongst them), half of their council seats went to the Green Party.

Shame that the Tories got the highest number of seats, but luckily a combination of Labour/Green/LibDem should be able to defeat any of their more disastrous policies.

Luckily no BNP scum here, although I noticed they had mixed success:

Before the election, BNP leader Nick Griffin said disaffection with government had been helping his party on the doorstep.

It was benefiting from the "kick Labour effect" and picking up votes from right-wing Conservative supporters disaffected with David Cameron.

(source)

...which reflects what I mentioned in another thread a couple of weeks ago about the BNP drawing support from right-wing Tories who think Cameron is too centre-right.

They didnt do as well as I thought they might. In a way it might have been the shock to the system that the Big Three need if they had, but I can't rightly pretend to be sorry for it. But then the Labour massacre everyone expected didn't exactly pan out, either.
I didn't vote. Only been back in the country two months, so aren't on the electoral roll.
No-one I know even received their voting slips, up here in North Lincs. Make of that what you will, since some very dodgy tactics are being used these days..

I agree - I think the "big 3" did need a shock to their system.

I think that Labour will pull back at the nect general election (I remember the same thing happening with the Tories during the 80s and 90s - battered in the local elections, but still winning the general elections) but hopefully with a much reduced majority (and a pretty-much guaranteed lack of Blair).

It's bad that people didn't receive their voting slips - they all seemed to be delivered OK here - but I doubt something like that could be deliberately arranged by a local political party - there are far too many vested interests from the opposition parties for them to even contemplate getting away with it (I'm not a conspiracy theorist by nature).

In a rather bizarre twist of events, two local candidates a Conservative and a Lib Deb tied, so the votes were recounted, tied again, there were three recounts and...and this is policy.....the result was decided on the toss of a coin

The Conservative guy won...and more bizarrely, I used to go pony patting with him when we were nippers

Too young to vote, until the end of this year. I'll do my research next year, in preparation.. I want to make sure I vote who whichever party is best suited for me, rather than "Red or blue, because the others don't stand a chance".

Maybe proportional representation would change attitudes, but that's opening a whole other can of worms..

'Good old Sheffield!'

In my ward
Lib Dem came first with 2000 odd, Labour 2nd 1934, and BNP 3rd with 475, Green 371, Cons 245

41 % turn out,
Sheff ave was 37% this year.

Elsewhere in two other Sheff wards haven't checked them all yet (just checked where I knew this would probably happen)

BNP came second in both with 660 and 1013 respectively, 30% turnout in both of these.

It's growing slightly more each time...rather worrying
Although it was interesting to see the NASUWT sending out leaflets to all their members with the prime objective of advising tactical voting to prevent BNP success.

I voted tactically, Lib Dem for the first time , I wouldn't vote that at a General E , but sometimes local is different. The Labour guy has been very ineffectual,well in fact useless.
A lot of bad decisions have been made locally recently and for once the LD are acting as well as speaking sense.

Interestingly, they were the only party of all five standing to actually bother to communicate with the voters.
Labour were probably too complacent , 'a good middle class /working class area in Sheff we are sorted' don't know what the others excuse was.

Depressing though, it's not exactly democracy in full swing when 60% of the electorate can't be bothered to get off their collective backsides.

What happens when we're down to 15 %?

Oh yeah UKIP AND BNP start getting seats!.
we need to re enfranchise!

calm down calm down!

Oh yeah I heard that bloke Debaser mentioned on the radio last night just after he'd won by 'the toss of a coin'. Have to say even though he'd won he had the grace / sense to declare his disgust at the ridiculousness of it all!

IMO it should have been frilly white shirts, breeches, riding boots and rapiers at dawn. Mind you if he was a horse slapper he'd probably have won anyway.

Perhaps he'd have preferred a joust....................

undertow wrote:'I heard that bloke Debaser mentioned on the radio last night . Mind you if he was a horse slapper he'd probably have won anyway.

I prophesy disaster

Tactical voting rather irritates me. Vote for a party you don't agree with to prevent another party getting in. If, and may we be a long way from it, the BNP start getting that kind of level of support, they are entitled to seats, as they have a democratic mandate. Engineering the results to prevent that by voting tactically seems to me undemocratic.

The reason I half-hoped they would do well is because nothing will shake the complacency of the three main parties in England except fear of losing power. The refusal of any of them to offer policies the population agree with, and the near homogenity of their manifestos just oozes arogance."You have to vote for one of us". Make them afraid of losing their salaries and pensions, and they'll start listening to what you want.
But then again, I can picture there being someone like me in the days of the Weimar Republic saying the same about using the National Socialists to shake up the ruling classes.

James Blast wrote

I prophesy disaster

You had me worried there, it's my own fault for not remembering the phrase and not being arsed to scrawl back and check it. suddenly thought pony patting might be some serious business, so I googled it and apparently it is..........obviuously now ponies are an important part of our home defence strategy............

Walking on Dartmoor | Blog | 1976design.com
James S. patting a pony. Dartmoor ponies.Military warning sign on the moor....
www.1976design.com/blog/archive/2004/03 ... moor-walk/


Chapter Excerpt: Prince of Danger by Amanda Scott
Patting the pony's nose, she said softly, "No noise now, if you please." Knowing...

www.hachettebookgroupusa.com/books/95/0 ... 21952.html

Shame.. I want to go to Sheffield for my degree.. liked the city whenever I've been round it... but if its BNP fanbase is high, I may have to reconsider.

Nah, just means that any of me anti-Nazi songs will hopefully incite the odd riot or two when I play there.

De winter wrote

Tactical voting rather irritates me

Fair enough, but in this case it was more voting for someone who was doing something I agreed with locally, rather than vote for someone who's policy I didn't agree with, even though normally at a GE I 'd vote for neither.
But i see your point.

As for your other I again see where you're coming from, but today my wife, who is a teacher, was doing Parliament and how it works with 13 /14 year olds.
She mentioned the three main parties and some lad said 'but there are other parties in Parliament? she replied yes .
His smirked aside to his mate was , 'like the BNP', to which she replied 'no they have no MP's'
His subsequent reply was 'well they should have'
Cue 'heated debate'
This isn't an isolated case .
On one level I see your reasoning and would quite welcome the whole smug lot of them get a nasty shock. but when you have a sizable (but growing) minority of 11 ,12, 13 ,14 year olds already well down the BNP road, I think it's too dangerous to chance that the BNP wouldn't get a decent foothold in certain areas if there was some 'shock' tactical voting at a national election.
Isuppose locally you could argue they have in some areas.
Mind you with some of Labours surveillance /policing laws, you'd almost think they were setting up the stage for the BNP.

DeWinter wrote:Tactical voting rather irritates me. Vote for a party you don't agree with to prevent another party getting in. If, and may we be a long way from it, the BNP start getting that kind of level of support, they are entitled to seats, as they have a democratic mandate. Engineering the results to prevent that by voting tactically seems to me undemocratic.

A consensus as to who shouldn't be in government is just as democratically valid as a consensus as to who should be. To be honest, I'd thoroughly favour a revised form which let you use your vote to subtract from one party rather than add to another and a "None of the above" option, a certain quantity of which would instigate a total reselection of candidates.

Dark wrote

Shame.. I want to go to Sheffield for my degree.. liked the city whenever I've been round it... but if its BNP fanbase is high, I may have to reconsider

.

Please don't let it put you off, we are talking a couple of pockets around the City. probabaly areas you'd never go to unless you stayed after you graduated.
On the whole I would say it's a pretty forward thinking , if foot in mouth at times' city
I've been here 14 years now and worked with people right across the board and have to say I've come across 'dodgy views' as far as BNP policies go, an a handful of occassions.
I've lived in Reading, Coventry, Liverpool Bradford and Leeds and whilst I'm not going to slay any other cities, because they've all been great in their own ways, let's say whilst not perfect, Sheffield iseems a lot more enlightened than a lot of others.

It's just a shame that, here comes that old chestnut,.........it's always a few that spoil it for the majority.

I reckon that you'd be mad to go anywhere else if the course is right for you, there's a lot happening here and it is, now, really on the up.
Great music scene , not just the obvious, lots of other 'culture' (man) good atmosphere good pubs ....good museums not a bad hospital and A+E.
It's a city but with more of a community feel, It's good going out on a night by yourself and just bumping into people you know.

If the black wings of depression beat down on you , you can escape in 20 minutes to the pennines and blow the thoughts away.
Plus you can go to gigs in Manc and Leeds and get back the same night (although you might have to get National Express from Leeds, don't appear drunk at leeds , they won't let you on).
Sheff has Got some great record shops and decent independent cinema and restaurants
Its FAB!
I could go on but I'm not the Councils 's PR department.

Oh and you get to stalk Phil Oakey, although I think he's stalking me at present.
He followed me from Virgin to Waterstones to some electric shop I forget the name of the other week.

Come to Sheffield anytime you like and you may never leave.

Oh and there's Monkey Swallows The Universe to they're greeeeeeat
google them! MTSU. SOMETHING

Dark wrote:Shame.. I want to go to Sheffield for my degree.. liked the city whenever I've been round it... but if its BNP fanbase is high, I may have to reconsider.

Sheff's lovley! It's Bamford you have to watch out for - our bus stop is covered in bloody BNP stickers
It's quite a thorough job for people with six toes on each foot....

d00mw0lf wrote:

Dark wrote:Shame.. I want to go to Sheffield for my degree.. liked the city whenever I've been round it... but if its BNP fanbase is high, I may have to reconsider.

Sheff's lovley! It's Bamford you have to watch out for - our bus stop is covered in bloody BNP stickers
It's quite a thorough job for people with six toes on each foot....

You made me choke and splutter on my Pepsi Max there, d00m

boudicca wrote:

d00mw0lf wrote:

Dark wrote:Shame.. I want to go to Sheffield for my degree.. liked the city whenever I've been round it... but if its BNP fanbase is high, I may have to reconsider.

Sheff's lovley! It's Bamford you have to watch out for - our bus stop is covered in bloody BNP stickers
It's quite a thorough job for people with six toes on each foot....

You made me choke and splutter on my Pepsi Max there, d00m

'pologies. You kinda forget that these things are unusual when you've spent a few years shareing a village with the six-toed bus station sticker menace gang

d00mw0lf wrote:the six-toed bus station sticker menace gang

If that's not a band name I don't know what is

boudicca wrote:

d00mw0lf wrote:the six-toed bus station sticker menace gang

If that's not a band name I don't know what is

Oddly enough, I've been looking for a name for a glam-goth band who play 17th century street songs (having just been kicked out of a goth-goth band who didn't play any songs because they were too busy sending nasty emails to my favorite people) all I need now is some musicians...

James Blast wrote:

undertow wrote:'I heard that bloke Debaser mentioned on the radio last night . Mind you if he was a horse slapper he'd probably have won anyway.

I prophesy disaster

As if....I'm so laid back I'm practically comatose. Come to think of it, so many things go over my head I reckon I'm actually only 3ft 7"