Madeliane McCann

[Ramone]

Now I know this is a very sensitive subject, so bare with me. We've all been traumatised during the past month by the images of missing children being beamed into our living rooms and across the front of the tabloids when you visit the corner shop for a pint of milk. And maybe it's because we are now becoming desensitized to certain news stories eg: mass school shootings in the USA, that used to shock and stun you as CNN gave us "Live Breaking News" footage of kids running covered in blood with stunned Police officers watching, that you now count the days to the next one and yet still shake your head in disbelief that it could happen time and time again. But it does and will.

What does concern me the most about the recent story involving Madeline McCann is not so much the actual story. But the way it's being used as the focal point of the news. Since May 3rd, it's been the Prime Time lead story despite what else has happened in the world that day.

Now, before you all shout me down for not caring, I do. I find the whole situation of missing children horrible and the ramifications of what may of happened disgusting.

But, in your heart of hearts do you truly believe this child would of got this amount of coverage if the parents were two un-married, over weight stereotypical Sun reading / Jeremy Kyle fodder couple from a Newcastle council estate with a horrible ugly petulant brat of a child ? - You've all come across them!! Instead of the sweet angelic child born to middle class looking beautiful parents? Much the way the Soham girls were given maximum exposure.

If you read that two 'slobs' had gone for a meal and left a three year old 'home alone' while they enjoyed a meal and some drinks, you could write the tabloid headlines yourself ; "Boozing Chav parents leave Kid Home Alone and gets snatched". Not the headlines we are seeing today - no mention of abandoning a helpless three year old home alone. Spin a story the right way and the blame disappears from the parents. Would you of done that?

Yes, we all want Maddy back safe and sound - and sooner or later we're going to have to face facts, it's growing less likely by the day. But I do feel that this country really does love a good old fashioned coming together of grief.

I'm sad to say, we are a nation of drama queens.

[Norman Hunter]

It all kicked off with Diana, mate.

Much as I despair as a parent over the unimaginable anguish that her parents are going through, I also can't help agreeing with your point. Get her home first, then deal with the backlash.

Sadly I also see only one tragic end to this sorry affair

[Ramone]

I was gonna mention Diana and The Queen 'Gawd Bless 'er she was a just like my ol' nan' Mother too.

[smiscandlon]

I pretty much agree with everything you've said, Ramone.

But that's the way modern media, and modern society, operate. It's not going to change anytime soon. So I guess you either have to get used to it and accept it, or try your best to ignore it (personally I do not watch television news, or buy newspapers - I use online news services to keep vaguely abreast of current events).

[Dark]

My mum was perusing the Express (ew) and relaying how they "were probably being stalked before they even went on holiday, and there are 9 British paedophiles in the area". I just said "Nobody would bother following a family to Portugal to steal their kid. And this happens to thousands of kids in south-east Asia, but do you see anyone shedding a tear?"

's true.

[markfiend]

Paedophiles under the bed.

(This is a dig at the Express, not your mum) How about any evidence that the abduction has anything to do with paedophilia? The "smart money" seems to be on this girl being "stolen" for adoption as far as I can tell. (cf Ben Needham)

But I do feel that this country really does love a good old fashioned coming together of grief.

I'm sad to say, we are a nation of drama queens.

Ramone: Didn't Boris Johnson say something along these lines about Ken Bigley's disappearance and get forced to apologise to the city of Liverpool?

[emilystrange]

there are very many kids that disappear in britain and never make the press.
i've seen it referred to as 'blonde blue-eyed kid' syndrome.

[Ramone]

Paedophiles under the bed.



I'm sad to say, we are a nation of drama queens.

Ramone: Didn't Boris Johnson say something along these lines about Ken Bigley's disappearance and get forced to apologise to the city of Liverpool?[/quote]

Aye, he did too. It's something people don't like to admit too, especially when it's true and said about them. This country likes to wallow in self pity and abandonment. You only have to look at certain newspapers who are just itching to jump on the national teams when the lose a game.

Emilystrange's quote about the 'blue eyed-blonde hair' syndrome is the closest I can equate to on this subject. Every grandmothers picture postcard grandchild. The only reason the others are not making world headlines is because they don't fit this particular criteria, which is shameful on everyone's behalf.

[bushman*pm]

It was a tradgedy that could or could not have been avoided if
THE PARENT HADN'T LEFT THE CHILD UNATTENDED!!!!!

Any child abduction must be the most distressing pain a parent can feel and therefore I do feel for the girls parents, but if they were in the apartment, perhaps their daughter still would be.
Still very sad none the less.

[Brideoffrankenstein]

THE PARENT HADN'T LEFT THE CHILD UNATTENDED!!!!!

Exactly, I'm not saying it's the parents fault, but if I ever have children, I will never leave them on their own

[DeWinter]

I like Boris Johnson. Despite being a cross between something out of Brideshead Revisited and the Drones Club he sometimes talks a lot of sense. Sadly, him and Patrick Mercer both were stupid enough to utter truths the public don't want to hear. Says more for the charachters of Micheal Howard and David Cameron than the pair of them, though.

I'll tell you something funny though, that I got from living abroad for a bit. In Britain, the perception and fear of crime is way out of context to the reality. I was more likely to be murdered in Finland than in England, and Finland prides itself on being a safe place. So people go abroad, and do things that they would never dream of doing in England, and then are horrified to discover that these same horrible people exist everywhere, and in just as large numbers.

[boudicca]

Have to say I could hardly agree less with some of the stuff that I've read so far. And not because I'm one for the kind of mass hysteria that the media undoubtedly does whip up with increasing frequency these days.
I was appalled by the outpouring of "grief" over Diana (I put it in inverted commas because I saw that fiasco as an insult to genuine grief and those experiencing it)... I have similar feelings about 9/11 and the depth in which every death of a soldier (not a conscript, someone who has chosen to go to a warzone) in Iraq is reported. I deeply resent being told what to be upset about.

However, I think this is largely a legitimate focus. Some have said that young children disappear from their parents and it isn't always given this coverage... is that really the case? If a British child is snatched from his or her home, or disappears without trace - does that ever fail to make the news? I don't think it does. It is thankfully a very rare occurrence, although the fact that these things now can be reported into all our homes makes a lot of parents feel like their kids are at ever-increasing risk of being taken, abused or killed by a stranger. The handful of times every year that this does happen, it does make the news and I personally have lost count of the number of different young faces that have been in this kind of spotlight.

And they're not all "blonde-haired blue-eyed". I don't know where you get that from - other than we do live in a predominantly white, Northern European country, and the majority of kids born here are obviously going to have fairly light eyes and hair when they are young. I don't think it follows that if they were darker no-one would give a damn, just that there are proprtionally far fewer kids like this. Between 5 and 7 British kids are murdered by someone outside their own family every year... the chances of one of those being from any group other than the anglo saxon / celtic majority is actually pretty low. We may have a good percentage of ethinic minorities in Britain - but the rarity of an event like this still means that the probablilty of a dark haired, dark eyed child being in Madelaine's spotlight is quite unlikely.
I am very cynical of both the media and the general public, but even I think that this kind of thing speaks to people on a very deep and instinctual level, at which any prejudices of appearance, class or colour are largely irrelevant. Every parent knows how hideous it would be to lose their child like this - even those who aren't can still empathise are we are naturally protective of the young.

In a way I think it's a good indicator that we haven't become entirely desensitized by round the clock running news of various atrocities and horrors... if people are still upset by the idea of a toddler being snatched from her parents then good! I still have a little hope for humanity. I'd be more worried if people did just accept it as "something that happens".

As far as the "they shouldn't have left her on her own" thing, I just find that really tasteless. Look at her parents ffs - do you not think they'll be torturing themselves over that for the rest of their lives if she doesn't come back? Don't you think they'll be regretting it with every fibre of their beings? I've said it already - it may have been a foolish thing to do but they still do not BEGIN to deserve what they are now going through as a result. They also don't deserve any less sympathy because they're a relatively well-to-do, nice looking couple.

And I really wonder... Of all the people who have made these comments, who have kids of their own - how many times have they looked away in a shopping centre, gone out the room for a second, been distracted by something... and if, IF something had happened to their kid then, they (and maybe others) would blame that moment where they failed in their duty to keep their child safe. But nothing ever did, so all is well.
I just think, there but for the grace of god goes practically everyone who's ever had a child, and people should get off their high horses about this. The McCanns are paying for their mistake, a million times over.

[6FeetOver]

I was more likely to be murdered in Finland than in England...

Why do you say that?

[DeWinter]

I was more likely to be murdered in Finland than in England...

Why do you say that?

Just to show perception and fact arent always the same. People assume England to be high-crime when it's not, and Finland to be safe, when it isn't. Twice as likely to be murdered in Finland than England, according to statistics. It's really Finns habit of getting boozed up and knifing one another in arguements, bit like Scotland in that respect.

[6FeetOver]

Well, better knives than guns (like over here), eh?

[undertow]

Boudicca wrote

(not a conscript, someone who has chosen to go to a warzone) .

Whilst I agree with virtually all the rest of your post I don't with the above.
They might not be conscripts , but many think they are fighting an illegal war and that they should not be there.
Yes people sign up to join the services knowing they may be injured or killed , or they should do. They know they can't pick or choose where they are sent to, or what they are told to do and 99.9% don't, they just get on with their job.
But fighting a war which you don't agree with; when you don't even need to be there and then getting killed , well I think there is something wrong with that and tragic........it's a waste of life. There is no point in it , just as there is no point in the senseless slaughter of every human that has died so far in Iraq.

Also you could argue that they may not be conscripts; but a lot of people join because they can do nothing else, they have no prospects, or pissed about at school and are now up the creek.
So they join to 'learn a trade' so when they get out they can kickstart their life.
OK perhaps they should think they might get sent to a warzone, especially now............but then when you're that young, it's like playing chicken on a railway track after a couple of bottles of cider.
Yeah it's dangerous but it ain't going to happen to you , it's the others who might get flattened.

[boudicca]

Boudicca wrote

(not a conscript, someone who has chosen to go to a warzone) .

Whilst I agree with virtually all the rest of your post I don't with the above.
They might not be conscripts , but many think they are fighting an illegal war and that they should not be there.
Yes people sign up to join the services knowing they may be injured or killed , or they should do. They know they can't pick or choose where they are sent to, or what they are told to do and 99.9% don't, they just get on with their job.
But fighting a war which you don't agree with; when you don't even need to be there and then getting killed , well I think there is something wrong with that and tragic........it's a waste of life. There is no point in it , just as there is no point in the senseless slaughter of every human that has died so far in Iraq.

Also you could argue that they may not be conscripts; but a lot of people join because they can do nothing else, they have no prospects, or pissed about at school and are now up the creek.
So they join to 'learn a trade' so when they get out they can kickstart their life.
OK perhaps they should think they might get sent to a warzone, especially now............but then when you're that young, it's like playing chicken on a railway track after a couple of bottles of cider.
Yeah it's dangerous but it ain't going to happen to you , it's the others who might get flattened.

Actually you're quite right - and I don't mean to demean the losses of those lives... I just resent it when I think of all the unreported deaths of soldiers from the Other Side. My point there was really just that I don't like being told who to mourn and I don't blindly follow it when I am.

[undertow]

Boudicca wrote

My point there was really just that I don't like being told who to mourn and I don't blindly follow it when I am.

Absolutely , point taken

[mik]

Q: How do you make an Express / Mail readers brain implode?
A: Tell them that illegal immigrants are the natural predator of paedophiles.

Fact: In the UK over 90% of sexual abuse against children is committed by family members, approximately 10% of which is by female family members, but some estimates are that as much of 50% of the abuse is known about but not reported by other family members who aren't themselves necessarily involved in the (direct) abuse.

So the point of Sarah's / Megan's law is precisely what?

My sympathy for the anguish that Madeleine’s parents are going through is severely tempered by the fact that they went out for the evening and left the kids in bed in a hotel. They didn't even bother to get the hotel's baby / child monitoring system. As has been previously said, if this were some working class (read: "dole scrounging scumbags" or insert your own tabloid screaming headline of choice here,) family rather than the ‘naice’ middle class family (they're both doctors you know....) then the press attention would have been considerably less charitable.

You know what? Just typing this out has made me think about how I actually feel about the whole thing and it amounts to nothing. Not a thing. Entirely avoidable tragedy; I've no sympathy whatever.

The parents bloody well deserve to suffer if their daughter has because of their selfishness; parenting comes with a s**t load of responsibilities and a mighty curtailment of your own freedoms.

People like this are one of the reasons I won't work in the family courts; they seem to believe that justice should be based on class rather than as a result of being in the bloody wrong

[markfiend]

I remember as a child being left in a hotel room with my younger brother by my parents while they were dining in the restaurant downstairs. (The fact that I remember tends to suggest I was older than 4 but still.) It may even have happened on more than one holiday.

I don't think it would even have occurred to them (as indeed to Madeleine McCann's parents) that anything untoward could happen. Perhaps Madeleine's abduction was avoidable or preventable, but deserved?

I agree with the point that had they (Madeleine's parents, not mine) been less obviously middle-class the press would have them strung up from lampposts by now. As it is, I'm 99% convinced they're just waiting until the little girl turns up before they start ripping the parents to shreds in the papers.

[Planet Dave]

Agreed Mik, by and large. You reap what you sow and all that.

I was wondering when the 'Sack Hoddle' media-led nationwide lynch-mob would be back on the streets rioting (and before you start, sensitive types, I'm not comparing football managers with child abduction, okay). What a terminally sad country this is.

As for the current topic, imagine the uproar if they'd been scousers.

[Ramone]

As for the current topic, imagine the uproar if they'd been scousers.

"Ahh ehhh wot ya tryin' to imply der laaaad , Sayin us scousers ah all dole scroungin' scumbags like,lad ?" - lol Point taken.

When these parents are back on British soil, the 'day time' p.c friendly talk shows that clog up British t.v are going to wet nurse and wrap them up in cotton wool and whimper along with them. No one will have the balls, once the dust has settled and actually look them square in the eye and say 'What the hell were you thinking, you've got three kids and you leave them home alone with access to get out , would you do that at home?"

The sad truth is, what ever the outcome the media are going to thrust them into our faces for weeks to come so they can tell their side of 'Maddies story' with testimonials from every relative, nanny, neighbour and teachers. And they are going to actually make money out of this. Some Max Clifford type is probably jacking himself off at the mere thought of all the exposure this is going to create. Where the media should close their cheque books and tell them if they really have the childs interests at heart they should do one interview when they are good and ready and do it for nothing - no one should be profiting from some thing like this. But you know some one, some where will.

Sky's coverage on Monday night made me sick. They practically condemned a man to death by stoning because he acted 'a bit odd' and had similar traits to Huntley. How subtle was that? It was almost like subliminal advertising - with a claw hammer. Show a few scary out of focus stills to make him appear even more menacing and link him to another more recent monster. Case closed.

It reminded me of when men's names appear in newspapers accusing them of rape with out even being convicted. Once that goes into print your life is over - even if they are exonerated. Trail by media is a horrendous act and it's never going to end, not while 24 news channels need some thing to fill their air time with.

Where's there's smoke..etc..the old adage goes. if indeed this man is found to be innocent he's going to be tarnished with that brush for ever.

Part of me hopes it is him, cos we'll have some sort of closure, part me hope it isn't so he can get back to trying to rebuild his life.

Andy Warhol said we all get our 15 minutes of fame - it's a shame that these parents are going to be remembered for much longer than that for all the wrong reasons.

[markfiend]

Sky's coverage on Monday night made me sick. They practically condemned a man to death by stoning because he acted 'a bit odd' and had similar traits to Huntley. How subtle was that? It was almost like subliminal advertising - with a claw hammer. Show a few scary out of focus stills to make him appear even more menacing and link him to another more recent monster. Case closed.

It reminded me of when men's names appear in newspapers accusing them of rape with out even being convicted. Once that goes into print your life is over - even if they are exonerated. Trail by media is a horrendous act and it's never going to end, not while 24 news channels need some thing to fill their air time with.

The poor fu'cker almost certainly won't be able to afford to sue the cnuts for libel either...

[Dark]

Remember when De Menezes got shot on the Tube? Someone posted about it here and I remember posting "What's the betting he was actually innocent" or something. Came true.

I had to shout through to my parents (my mum was glued to the TV for updates this morning) not to judge anyone before the courts did.

Seriously.

[markfiend]

Remember that guy who seemingly had some kind of obsessive disorder that got dragged into the investigation of the Ipswich prostitute murders too?