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jesus wept
Posted: 23 Jul 2007, 20:58
by itnAklipse
Can somebody tell me the deep and profound meaning of the aforementioned two words? Oh, and not to mention...what's COMMONLY meant by it
Posted: 23 Jul 2007, 21:05
by Silver_Owl
From Wiki.....
The phrase occurs in John's narrative of the death of Lazarus, a friend of Jesus. Lazarus' sisters Mary and Martha sent word to Jesus of their brother's illness. Jesus arrived four days after Lazarus' death. Jesus, after talking to the grieving sisters and seeing Lazarus' friends weeping, was deeply troubled. After being shown where Lazarus was laid, Jesus wept in front of Lazarus' tomb. He then ordered the people to remove the stone covering his tomb, prayed aloud to God (for the benefit of the people), and ordered Lazarus to come out.
Significance has been attributed to this phrase for a number of reasons, including the following:
Weeping demonstrates that the Christ was indeed true man, with real bodily functions (such as tears, sweat, blood, eating and drinking - note, for comparison, the emphasis laid on Jesus eating during the post-resurrection appearances). His emotions and reactions were real; the Christ was not an illusion or spirit (see Docetism). Pope Leo I referred to this passage when he discussed the two natures of Jesus: "In his humanity Jesus wept for Lazarus; in his divinity he raised him from the dead."
The sorrow felt by Jesus presages the suffering of his own crucifixion.
The sorrow, sympathy, and compassion Jesus felt for all mankind.
Jesus's weeping demonstrates that Lazarus had genuinely died. The raising of Lazarus was therefore not a fraud or a case of misdiagnosis.
Most people interpret his weeping to mean that Jesus was sorrowful for the fact that Lazarus had died (which was the interpretation of the bystanders in verse 36). However, an alternate explanation considers this to be unreasonable, given his full knowledge that he was about to resurrect Lazarus. This view instead argues that every single person whom Jesus talked to in John chapter 11 (his disciples, Martha, Mary, and the Jews) was blinded by their misconceptions of Jesus and by their failure to recognize that, as he declared in verse 26, he himself was "the resurrection and the life". Thus, "he groaned in the spirit and was troubled" (New King James, verse 33). This view holds that he wept because even those who were closest to him were still blinded by their concepts to the fact that he really was "the resurrection and the life"—beyond mere doctrine (verses 25-27)—in spite of all his plain words to them. A striking point in this view is that the only person in the chapter who had no misconceptions was the dead man Lazarus, who promptly obeyed and received life when commanded to come forth. Finally, this view holds that the bystanders in verses 36-37, just like most readers today, were blinded by their own misconceptions and so did not understand that Jesus was actually weeping for them, not for Lazarus.
The sadness shown by Jesus may not be for the death of Lazarus, but rather his resurrection. Considering Christ's knowledge of the afterlife and personal (as well as divine) knowledge of Lazarus' character, he may instead have been filled with grief knowing that Lazarus would be taken from the promise of paradise (technically Lazarus would still be in the Limbo of the Fathers since Christ had not yet opened the gates of heaven) and returned to an imperfect world. His Knowledge that Lazarus would soon be raised would not seem to warrant this sorrow.
In some places in the western English-speaking world, including the UK, Ireland (particularly Dublin) and Australia, the phrase "Jesus wept" is a common expletive, curse or minced oath spoken when something goes wrong or to express mild incredulity. [1] [2]
This usage is evidenced in films and TV programmes including Lawrence of Arabia (1962), Hellraiser (1987), The Stand (2004) and Notes on a Scandal (2006).
Posted: 23 Jul 2007, 21:10
by canon docre
It's a favourite tattoo phrase (next to 'Satan saves' ). I know alone three people who have it tattooed.
Posted: 23 Jul 2007, 21:10
by itnAklipse
NEver thought of that, thanks a lot!
Posted: 23 Jul 2007, 21:20
by 6FeetOver
Thanks for this; I'd no idea. I'm an atheist, but it seems that this phrase is tossed around far too casually, in light of its original significance...
Posted: 23 Jul 2007, 22:16
by Dark
"Jesus wept... next time I'll close the blinds first"
Or better yet:
"Jesus saves... everyone else takes 20 damage"
Posted: 23 Jul 2007, 22:19
by 6FeetOver
Posted: 23 Jul 2007, 22:20
by bushman*pm
Posted: 23 Jul 2007, 22:21
by paint it black
creaming jesus sampled it [hellraiser] and made it sound very cool
Posted: 23 Jul 2007, 22:21
by Dark
I was trying to think of a good football-related one
Posted: 23 Jul 2007, 22:21
by Silver_Owl
Beckham?
It was Keegan in my day.
Posted: 23 Jul 2007, 22:23
by bushman*pm
Hom_Corleone wrote:
Beckham?
It was Keegan in my day.
Coppell, Steve I think, in mine!
EEEEEEEEEEEEE, OLD GIT!!!!!! EEEEEEEEEE
Posted: 23 Jul 2007, 22:30
by itnAklipse
Btw, isn't Beckham actually a pretty bad football player? i mean, i watched half a game of his (I HAD MY REASONS) and he scored nothing. He was just pulling up his socks...
Posted: 23 Jul 2007, 22:34
by bushman*pm
itnAklipse wrote:Btw, isn't Beckham actually a pretty bad football player? i mean, i watched half a game of his (I HAD MY REASONS) and he scored nothing. He was just pulling up his socks...
Nah, thats massaging his brain!
Posted: 23 Jul 2007, 22:37
by 6FeetOver
Becks isn't even that cute anymore, dammit! All that time in the sun and no sunscreen = leatherface! Bleah!
NEXT!
Posted: 23 Jul 2007, 22:39
by itnAklipse
LOL at both you you. LOL.
Posted: 24 Jul 2007, 09:38
by markfiend
"Jesus wept" (John 11:35) is the shortest verse in (most translations of) the Bible.
Original Greek: ΕΔΑΚΡΥΣΕΝ Ο ΙΗΣΟΥΣ
literally "Weeps the Jesus"
Posted: 24 Jul 2007, 11:40
by Izzy HaveMercy
markfiend wrote:"Jesus wept" (John 11:35) is the shortest verse in (most translations of) the Bible.
Original Greek: ΕΔΑΚΡΥΣΕΝ Ο ΙΗΣΟΥΣ
literally "Weeps the Jesus"
Isn't it rather stunning that the English verb 'to cry' actually originates from the Greek word, as you can clearly see above?
IZ.
Posted: 24 Jul 2007, 12:06
by markfiend
Just an odd coincidence. The Greek letter that looks like a Roman Y is actually Upsilon. The transliteration is
edakrusen (aorist active indicative 3rd person of edakruO {εδακρυϖ or in caps* ΕΔΑΚΡΥΩ}
) According to this:
ask.com wrote:cry (krī)
[Middle English crien, from Old French crier, from Vulgar Latin* critāre, from Latin quirītāre, to cry out, perhaps from Quirītēs, public officers to whom one would cry out in times of need.]
* In my previous post the Greek was all in caps because the original Koiné Greek text was written before the Greek miniscules were invented.
ETA: Oddly, my Greek interlinear NT has Sigma represented by "C" not "Σ" so it looks like "ΕΔΑΚΡΥCΕΝ Ο ΙΗCΟΥC" -- I presume that's how it was written in antiquity.
Posted: 24 Jul 2007, 13:41
by SomeKindOfStranger
markfiend wrote:"Jesus wept" (John 11:35) is the shortest verse in (most translations of) the Bible.
Original Greek: ΕΔΑΚΡΥΣΕΝ Ο ΙΗΣΟΥΣ
literally "Weeps the Jesus"
Yes -I've seen grown men argue about this in a pub quiz! A few translations have job 3:2 as 'He said', but most have 'and job said'.
Or there is the 'trick question' answer - Matthew 17:21, which is completley missing from a number of translations.
Posted: 24 Jul 2007, 14:16
by markfiend
You learn something new every day! I didn't know that. Just looked it up, and Matt 17:21 does not appear in the original Greek.
Note: the interlinear I'm using can be found
here and is based on the 1881 Westcott-Hort Greek New Testament. Matt 17:21
does appear in the 1550 Stephanus Textus Receptus (on which the KJV was based)
Edit to add:
Right, I understand, the Textus Receptus is based on the Byzantine text-type, whereas the W-H version is from the Alexandrian text-type. Alexandrian priority over the Byzantine is almost universally accepted these days.
Posted: 24 Jul 2007, 14:31
by hellboy69
Skinny Puppy also sampled the Hellraiser usage, on "Fascist Jock Itch" ~ hmmm, must give it a spin now
Posted: 24 Jul 2007, 15:08
by James Blast
Post#17-21, yer 'avin a laff,
aintcha? 
Posted: 24 Jul 2007, 15:12
by Nic
hellboy69 wrote:Skinny Puppy also sampled the Hellraiser usage, on "Fascist Jock Itch" ~ hmmm, must give it a spin now
Also used by:
Ministry - Just One Fix
Leaether Strip - Satanic Citizen
Creaming Jesus - Casserole
Entombed - Hellraiser
Amongst others.
A bit OT I know, but hey...
Posted: 24 Jul 2007, 15:22
by markfiend
James Blast wrote:Post#17-21, yer 'avin a laff,
aintcha?
Aye.
