Heartland

I find this very scary
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6973610.stm

Those are indeed sick devices. And they have been proven to be from damaging to lethal. Just that those incidents aren't, for some strange reason, much reported.

Bearing in mind the number of people who regularly carry knives, I think this is a far less harmful option than the asp baton for the police to use. I have not yet heard of reports of anyone in the UK being killed by use of a taser, however in the last four years eleven police officers have been murdered, four having been stabbed to death. If I were facing a maniac who was armed with a knife and I were given the choice of a baton or a taser I know which I'd prefer

Nixon wrote:Bearing in mind the number of people who regularly carry knives, I think this is a far less harmful option than the asp baton for the police to use. I have not yet heard of reports of anyone in the UK being killed by use of a taser, however in the last four years eleven police officers have been murdered, four having been stabbed to death. If I were facing a maniac who was armed with a knife and I were given the choice of a baton or a taser I know which I'd prefer

Maybe there haven't been any deaths in the UK (yet), but there certainly have in the US. Admittedly, British police aren't as trigger happy as their American counterparts, but you still have to be rather concerned that the officers who will be armed with the TASERs will only be getting about 12 hours training.

Google "taser abuse" and see what comes up.

Nixon wrote:l option

Now there's a word to consider.
We have an "option" in what WEAPON is "okay"?
WTF?

Surely if you're not breaking the law then you have nothing to worry about

robertzombie wrote:Surely if you're not breaking the law then you have nothing to worry about

My point of view exactly, furthermore, if I were being threatened by a bloke with a knife, I'd want the police to prevent him from harming me as soon as possible. They can do this far easier with a taser than by wanting to sit down have a chat and a cup of tea with him.

robertzombie wrote:Surely if you're not breaking the law then you have nothing to worry about

Only as long as the law's right...

There's also been instances of taser uses in situations where cops would never have used firearms, for example on a runaway girl, who just wouldn't shut up. Cops thought it was then acceptable to stun her, even though they would never have shot her or beat her.
You can't simply give people tasers and act as though it were a perfectly harmless device, because it's not.

robertzombie wrote:Surely if you're not breaking the law then you have nothing to worry about

Surely you're joking...

What Erika said.

Effing hell.
A choice of weapons, ffs

Doesn't really matter if you're breaking the law or not.
They can still employ them if they think you are doing something "dodgy".

James Blast wrote:I find this very scary
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6973610.stm

Me too James ... I think you know my feelings about those particular 'gentlemen', their behaviour & 'toys'? ...

Saw 'Taking Liberties' last night in Ludlow (yeah, I know it has been out for a while - it takes time for us to get this stuff in Cowpat Country ...) - "Freedom of Speech? - Try that one 'sir' and we have the perfect excuse to play with our Tasers ..." - You have been warned ...

OK OK - I know politics is - and we all thought Thatcher was bad? - Shortly we will all be doing the Goose-step ...
Aaarrggghhh - where's my medication

robertzombie wrote:Surely if you're not breaking the law then you have nothing to worry about

... and the Miner's Strike, and the Poll Tax demo, Greenham Common, Stonehenge, May Day in Parliament & Trafalgar Sqs, Heathrow last month, Grosvenor Sq. 1968, 'Raves' (remember them?) etc etc. I dread to think what they would have done had they had access to these. ... So presumably you'll be happy to carry an 'ID' card too? It won't be long before music in any public place will be open to scrutiny - hmmm let's see:- Dr Avalanche? - Repetitive Beat ... Tasers at the ready! ... oh, and when was the last time you lit up in the rubadub? ... (or at a gig? ...) [/b][/u]

reactiv8 wrote:So presumably you'll be happy to carry an 'ID' card too?

Yes.

What's wrong with carrying an ID card? I don't wanna take my passport (with a pic from when I was about 10) to a pub after I'm 18.

Dark wrote:What's wrong with carrying an ID card?

I naively and innocently asked that very same questions a few weeks ago. We've had ID cards for about 200 years now in France, and it's very simple and very convenient. But I understand it's not the piece of paper - or plastic - that's the problem, but rather all the measures around it, like data storing, etc.

Badlander wrote:

Dark wrote:What's wrong with carrying an ID card?

I naively and innocently asked that very same questions a few weeks ago. We've had ID cards for about 200 years now in France, and it's very simple and very convenient. But I understand it's not the piece of paper - or plastic - that's the problem, but rather all the measures around it, like data storing, etc.

I already have a driving licence, passport and a shotgun licence (all I may add with nice photos of me) why should I pay (the oft quoted fee) of £100+ for another piece of paper to say who I am? Wouldn't it be simpler to make everyone carry their passport at all times? Cheaper for me too.

I have no problem carrying a form of ID (call it whatever) but don't we have enough already?

Badlander wrote:

robertzombie wrote:Surely if you're not breaking the law then you have nothing to worry about

Only as long as the law's right...

There's also been instances of taser uses in situations where cops would never have used firearms, for example on a runaway girl, who just wouldn't shut up. Cops thought it was then acceptable to stun her, even though they would never have shot her or beat her.
You can't simply give people tasers and act as though it were a perfectly harmless device, because it's not.

Yes, like dumb (or just sadistic) cops tasering people who are undergoing an epileptic seizure (http://www.mindhacks.com/blog/2006/11/p ... man_h.html).

The problem with these devices is that they might not be used just for self-defence but increasingly as some kind of disciplinary method. It's the same with that microwave-mounted-on-vehicle "crowd control" apparatus. We're heading towards a future, where opposition to state authority will be punished immediately, with precisely graded degrees of pain. Looking the wrong way at a cop or being a bit inattentive or slow at following his orders will get you a mild zap perhaps, insubordination will have you writhing on the ground. And crowds at demos can be handled cost-effectively with measured (nothing excessive, we're civilized) bursts of the "democracy enforcer" microwave cannon, just orderly leading the sheep along with a large cattle prod. Given a generation or three, it all will be quite natural and accepted. After all, it's only for our own good, isn't it?

smiscandlon wrote:

reactiv8 wrote:So presumably you'll be happy to carry an 'ID' card too?

Yes.

No problem for me. I have one here in Hungary, but I would be a tad
p!ssed if someone tried to charge me a small fortune for it.
Isn't this what we pay taxes for? (well the rest after paying for shiny new missiles & stuff).

If it's the government's idea, then they should pick up the tab .

streamline wrote: and a shotgun licence

For the electric one?

smiscandlon wrote:

reactiv8 wrote:So presumably you'll be happy to carry an 'ID' card too?

Yes.

Oh dear ...

Dark wrote:What's wrong with carrying an ID card? I don't wanna take my passport (with a pic from when I was about 10) to a pub after I'm 18.

... 'Lambs to the Slaughter' then?! ... As Mr Blast would say:- Check your History - governments are NOT to be trusted ... 'Trust' - remember that concept?

(I've never shown an 'ID card' of any sort at a pub & was served from age 13 onwards! - But that was over 30 years ago ... )

I do find this discussion about individual freedom vs. security demands very interesting. It looks like there're quite some differences between the country I'm from and Great Britain. Do I understand it right that for you the concept of carrying an ID is strangely absurd, whilst being permanentely filmed when walking through town is perfectly normal? Over here it's exactly the other way round.

canon docre wrote:I do find this discussion about individual freedom vs. security demands very interesting. It looks like there're quite some differences between the country I'm from and Great Britain. Do I understand it right that for you the concept of carrying an ID is strangely absurd, whilst being permanentely filmed when walking through town is perfectly normal? Over here it's exactly the other way round.

Point taken! ... If we have a choice (which we evidently don't) Preferably neither ...

Trust is the Keyword.

canon docre wrote:whilst being permanentely filmed when walking through town is perfectly normal?

Slightly off-topic, but a couple of weeks ago I saw this:



It's a Glasgow City Council CCTV van, which is ... well, a van with a CCTV camera stuck on top. I'm not really sure what the point of that is, but it made me chuckle...

James Blast wrote:I find this very scary
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6973610.stm

... (and again) I like your edited 'Subject' James ...