live performance copyright
Posted: 27 Sep 2007, 13:50
Just a quick question (particulary for those who are in a band) if you play a cover live (like say, the Sisters do Jolene) do you need to pay the original copyright holder?
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Posted: 27 Sep 2007, 13:53
AFAIK only if you release it or spread the recording. Am sure it has been discussed before.
Posted: 27 Sep 2007, 14:16
Rule of thumb: the venue has to deal with royalties. Please do not ask how copyright holders know which songs are played at venues.
Posted: 27 Sep 2007, 14:24
wellPetseri wrote:Rule of thumb: the venue has to deal with royalties. Please do not ask how copyright holders know which songs are played at venues.
they come on forums like this one, introduce them as being a nice chap and start digging into the weeding section 
untill they have gathered all the necessary boots with covers on it 
Posted: 27 Sep 2007, 14:27
stefan moermans wrote:wellPetseri wrote:Rule of thumb: the venue has to deal with royalties. Please do not ask how copyright holders know which songs are played at venues.
i never thought of that
Posted: 27 Sep 2007, 14:38
Most bands fill in a PRS (performing rights society) form with the setlist they played. This gets sent off and the PRS pay royalties to the songwriters..... I think thats it anyway!
Posted: 27 Sep 2007, 15:10
It is indeed done that way. However, SOME bands fill them out and omit the cover versionsDOZMEISTER wrote:Most bands fill in a PRS (performing rights society) form with the setlist they played. This gets sent off and the PRS pay royalties to the songwriters..... I think thats it anyway!
Posted: 27 Sep 2007, 15:27
Does this mean that the PRS (potentially) have the setlist for every UK gig ever?DOZMEISTER wrote:Most bands fill in a PRS (performing rights society) form with the setlist they played. This gets sent off and the PRS pay royalties to the songwriters..... I think thats it anyway!
Is it available to the public?
Posted: 27 Sep 2007, 17:32
I've never seen such a thing..however, doesn't mean they don't exist.DOZMEISTER wrote:Most bands fill in a PRS (performing rights society) form with the setlist they played. This gets sent off and the PRS pay royalties to the songwriters..... I think thats it anyway!
AFAIK, it's part of the live performance licence that a venu must have if they're putting live bands on. This goes into a large pot of money and is then divided up amongst the copyright holders.
IIRC, the set list submission form is for dj's, not bands.
Posted: 27 Sep 2007, 17:59
i've never filled out or seen one of those eitherSyberberg wrote:IIRC, the set list submission form is for dj's, not bands.
i always assumed it was covered by the same ents. license fee you mention above, and is the concern of the venue....
Posted: 27 Sep 2007, 19:15
All over Europe and the US we have been asked to fill out these forms, we just tend to be forgetful with other people's songsQuiff Boy wrote:i've never filled out or seen one of those eitherSyberberg wrote:IIRC, the set list submission form is for dj's, not bands.
i always assumed it was covered by the same ents. license fee you mention above, and is the concern of the venue....
Posted: 27 Sep 2007, 19:15
I think technically bands are meant to pay for the covers they perform live. Though none ever do, or ever will.
Posted: 27 Sep 2007, 19:17
yep and yepDark wrote:I think technically bands are meant to pay for the covers they perform live. Though none ever do, or ever will.
Obviously when I say "we" I am referring to the royal "we"
Posted: 27 Sep 2007, 19:57
Somewhat ironic given the music industry's assumption that we consumers are thieving bastards depriving their artists of money. Perhaps they should be looking closer to home.
Posted: 27 Sep 2007, 20:50
This should clear a few things up:
For more info go here
Hope that helps.
Edit:
According to the PRS, venues are charged 3% of the box office receipts.Any live performance of music by an orchestra or band and the
playing of sound recordings (eg. tapes, CDs) in the club will be a
public performance for the purposes of copyright infringement and
the person liable to pay any fee by way of copyright licence will be
the proprietor of the club or organiser of the event.
PERFORMING RIGHTS LICENCE:
The PRS will normally grant a licence to any prospective music user,
provided only that the person concerned is prepared to enter into a
standard form of licence contract and pay a standard royalty.
Licences issued by the PRS are in the form of annual contracts
which run from year to year until cancelled by either party. These
are blanket licences which authorise the public performance of any
of the millions of works which PRS controls on behalf of its members
and affiliated societies throughout the world. Royalties payable
vary from time to time as the nature or extent of music usage changes in the premises concerned.
For more info go here
Hope that helps.
Edit:
Nope, it's the responsibility of the venue owner or the promoter, ie the holder of the Performance Rights Licence to pay the royalties, which is covered (sic) in the licence fee. Any venue owner who tells you otherwise is trying to scam you and should be dealt with accordingly. With extreme predudice.Dark wrote:I think technically bands are meant to pay for the covers they perform live. Though none ever do, or ever will.
Posted: 27 Sep 2007, 22:47
Thatks a lot folks. That cleared a few things up!
Posted: 27 Sep 2007, 22:57
Every year my local equivalent of the PRS sends out a "Live Performance Return". Ideally, I am supposed to include my setlists and venues for all my gigs in the previous. Crucially, the incentive to do this is that I get a small royalty payment (from the fund which all venues pay into) for my own original songs that I perform! Last year I earned the princely sum of $26. And, yes, I mentioned the time I played "Under the Gun", so Von and those two weirdos who wrote the original song got a couple of bucks, I assume.
Posted: 28 Sep 2007, 12:14
Von must love the Smurfs
Posted: 28 Sep 2007, 12:29
you'd think so wouldn't you?
Posted: 29 Sep 2007, 06:28
They never askes us to fill in any form, even in bigger venues like 013. Just plain standard venue contracts.