Lucretia my reflection

[James Blast]

FYI, I think "dum dum bullets" are hollow points. I'm not sure where I picked that up though.

Indeed, I also remember a bloke I was at college with telling me about these pills that got you stoned called dum dum, I never tried them and I can't find any reference online to them so that could be bollocks.

[Episkopos]

Dumdums are bullets modified somehow to make a right f**king mess of whatever they hit; they don't just damage, they absolutely mangle. I associate them with gangs making their own in grubby basements, but that could be one too many dodgy cyberpunk RPGs talking.

[Elfeyth]

Have been puzzling over the lyrics to 'Lucretia' for rather a long while now ...

I am still convinced there is a reference to Tarquin (evil Roman emperor dude) who raped Lucretia and that this is either from actual Roman history or is from literature.

Like the idea suggested earlier that it's about a man and woman failing to be close to each other. The whole 'get down, get undressed' seems to reflect the idea that one of those characters is trying to force some kind of a relationship on the other, in the absence of a balanced, consensual relationship.

Lots of imagery of violence as though the inner feelings of these protagonists are becoming actually tangible elements (in the roaring of the big machine, the crushing power of the train). Dum-dum bullets (so a former boyfriend once explained to me) split up on impact and shatter things (i.e. people) apart.

Maybe the line 'dance the ghost with me' gives us some hope that, even if it's in the spiritual realm, rather than the all too corporeal one of the song, some unity and fulfillment is possible.

Or maybe it's just great to sway around to in a long, black dress?

P.S. Aren't there some other references to trains in Sisters songs? There is something they always make me think of ... but it's far to miserable to post ... so I won't!!

[markfiend]

I always assumed "dance the ghost with me" was some sort of dig at Gary Marx and his post-Sisters band Ghost Dance.

[Dead_Rock]

A little of this, a bit of that. I don't think it got one theme but is rather a powerful song with lyrics that reflect this power.

[Izzy HaveMercy]

Dumdums are bullets modified somehow to make a right f**king mess of whatever they hit; they don't just damage, they absolutely mangle.

Are these the ones also known as 'cop killers', or are those the ones with spiralled tip so they burrow through Kevlar

EDIT: I was wrong, these are the Cop Killers...

IZ.

[eastmidswhizzkid]

dum-dum bullets were used in contravention of the geneva convention by the germans in the first world war (my great-grandad lost his leg to one at the age of seventeen at ypes).
they had a flattened end which caused it to explode on impact rather than just make a hole, like hollow-points.

[Memphis Rich]

"once a railroad, now it's done" is part of of an old railroader's song from the USA.

[H. Blackrose]

Lucretia = Lucrezia Borgia, not Lucretia wife of Lucius Tarquinius Collatinus. "I think of Patricia as quite Lucretia-like" - Von, before the girl went nuts and started suing him.

[Memphis Rich]

Countess Dracula

[H. Blackrose]

This interview is (mis)quoted in 1959 And All That, on the subject.

[BaroqueHyena]

This interview is (mis)quoted in 1959 And All That, on the subject.

"Is That A Banana in Your Pants?"was the first thing that grabbed my attention.

...And did not know the Doktor was named after a Swiss soccer official. huh.

[Fodderstompf]

As Eldritch described it as his "welcome on board Patricia
song", I understood the lines

Lucretia, my reflection
Dance the ghost with me

as something like "How ironic, now I'm collaborating
with a woman, just like my old pal Gary in Ghost
Dance does!"

[Nadia81]

I had the idea the lyrics were a reference to British post-colonialism. Von and Patricia -white anglo-saxons-dancing on the ruins of the British Empire.

[James Blast]

I was allas sure it was Mr.E's way of saying "Let's get jiggy wid it" but in a Goth style, even though he's not a Goth, uh-uh, no-no but she looks like she might be.

But he's not.

Okay?

[Fodderstompf]

I had the idea the lyrics were a reference to British post-colonialism. Von and Patricia -white anglo-saxons-dancing on the ruins of the British Empire.

I think "dance the ghost with me" is quite
obviously a nod to Ghost Dance.

[iesus]

By combining some clues already know and new sources i think i found a key to solve the fog about what it say from one point of view.
World War II is the main basis of influence.
An interesting text about drug use in WWII can be found here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alertness

I will just copy from there 2 of the interesting among others points:

1- British troops used 72 million amphetamine tablets in the second world war[2] and the RAF used so many that "Methedrine won the Battle of Britain" according to one report.[3]

2-American bomber pilots use amphetamines ("go pills") to stay awake during long missions. The Tarnak Farm incident, in which an American F-16 pilot killed several friendly Canadian soldiers on the ground, was blamed by the pilot on his use of amphetamine.

An interesting question to in the future would be: "which empire refers the lyrics?"
Case scenarios are many. Too many options to choose, perhaps the empire is more than one. Germany, Brittish etc.
Also there is a timeline issue. Past, present and future are encrypted carefully providing a post apocalyptic fog in the time to come to the lyrics.
Lucretia is a female symbol-figure and i don't think that is used for Patricia in any case scenario.

[million voices]

... or maybe she has her head down because she is looking downwards to where the empire now is - "down"

[markfiend]

tl;dr

[Guedzilla]

The Cure's one is said to be about the mod revival that was going on at the time…

[EmmaPeelWannaBe]

and I always thought "dum dum bullets" was a reference to smart bombs.

[paint it black]

and I always thought "dum dum bullets" was a reference to smart bombs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expanding_bullbullet

See the joke is the irony of shooting to kill (clean and skilful) and choosing to do this with a bullet designed to maximise damage on impact

[markfiend]

[eastmidswhizzkid]

patsy was a good bass-player in a fair-to-middling band which she could have carried on in until whenever. she cleverly and correctly chose to trade this for being a high-profile member of the worlds greatest rock band's magazine cover-gracing division at the time of the bands greatest popularity and accolade. alll the coke you can stop von snaffling and never have to pay for a can of shockwaves again. every (honest) woman on this forum would sell their souls to hang out with eldritch for 2 years. as for vanian, you cant help who you fall in love with.

[million voices]

I wouldn't have minded being able to see through to her bottom