So I'm sitting through 'Vision Thing' for the first time...

White Like Jesus · 18 Mar 2008, 19:19

I have to say, this album has some REALLY cheesy/fake sounding guitars. And this is coming from a fan of guitars of all kind. Real/fake/sampled/whatever. Guitars sound good, but THESE guitars sound bad. Lyrics are great as always, but what the hell, man? What're you thinking?!? Get a real guitar player, or a real programmer with a better sense of riffs and melodies (or dissonance).

I can see why this is considered a weaker Sisters album.

('More' sounds like it could have been from Floodland, though. They could have made a whole album that sounded like this.)

'Under The Gun' was a step up in the production and melody department, that's for sure.

EvilBastard · 18 Mar 2008, 19:48

White Like Jesus wrote:I have to say, this album has some REALLY cheesy/fake sounding guitars. And this is coming from a fan of guitars of all kind. Real/fake/sampled/whatever. Guitars sound good, but THESE guitars sound bad. Lyrics are great as always, but what the hell, man? What're you thinking?!? Get a real guitar player, or a real programmer with a better sense of riffs and melodies (or dissonance).

I understood that this was the whole point of the album. The record company was pressuring

to sell more records, and his response was "The only way to sell more records is to make records that sell, which means cheesy fake Rush-esque guitars." To which EW replied, "So be it."
So

put a record together that he knew that the faithful would loathe, and it wouldn't sell, thereby proving him right and EW wrong. Unfortunately the joke backfired, as it sold to the kinds of people who wouldn't buy Sisters albums - i.e. the people who wanted cheesy guitars.

Oh, and Keef, who secretly loves it but won't admit it

White Like Jesus · 18 Mar 2008, 19:52

How to explain 3 VT songs on the best of album, before the Floodland and FALAA tracks? Reverse chronology? Even still, he's *proud* of the music on Detonation Boulevard and Doctor Jeep?

mh · 18 Mar 2008, 21:25

Aye, reverse chronology. Allegedly the LP is supposed to be the WEA/EW era singles (rather than a "best of"), so the choices are a wee bit strange.

robertzombie · 18 Mar 2008, 22:47

I really like it!

I love all their albums but seeing as we're focusing on VT.
Everything about it really appeals to me. I'm not a guitarophile but I do like the guitar sound and the use of synth mingling with the guitars (More, Doctor Jeep, WYDSM) works well. Also, the band looked great at the time, (the 1990/91 videos/live stuff has always been my favourite) and (going on bootlegs) I believe they sounded their best at this time. I only wish they'd Vision Thing'd a few more classics whilst on the road.

I love all the Sisters albums, VT ain't my favourite (F&L&A takes the crown) but they all get equal plays.
I can see why people at the time might have been confused or annoyed that they didn't get Floodland Rev. 2.0 but in saying that I listened to the albums in order of release, admittedly I listened to them over the period of a week instead of 5 years (:lol:) and wasn't particularly confused or angered. Floodland is different to F&L&A and Vision Thing is different to Floodland. Variety is nice.

I also wonder what road he'd go down if we had a new album? He's done the "trad goth" stuff, done the synths and done the RAWK! what next? The "new" tracks (thate we've heard) would suggest Vision Thing 2 but I don't think he'd want to do that. Maybe that's why we don't have a new album, he can't think of what to do

dinky daisy · 19 Mar 2008, 19:47

It is the best album by the Sisters. Those who deny, will come out of the closet the other day.

Nic · 19 Mar 2008, 20:03

dinky daisy wrote:It is the best album by the Sisters. Those who deny, will come out of the closet the other day.

I'm staying in.

streamline · 19 Mar 2008, 20:44

robertzombie wrote: I also wonder what road he'd go down if we had a new album? He's done the "trad goth" stuff, done the synths and done the RAWK! what next?

String quartet techno.
Or drum and bass with a savage gangsta rap reworking of Thomas the Tank Engine.

Or another few years of silence.....

Andrei · 19 Mar 2008, 21:52

I love VT! It's definitely not my favorite, and it is not the Sisters sound that I like, but anyone who doesn't love "More" or the title track needs to learn how to ***ROCK***.

Also, it's sooooo fun when they play VT songs live; they get the crowd bouncing up and down and really energizes the crowd!

Dark · 19 Mar 2008, 22:54

The "best of" is ridiculous.. the Canadian Club Mix of VT was never an a-side. But that aside..

It's just a rock album. It'll do. The best song is WYDSM, and its single "remix" is just unspeakably good.

I can't say I listen to it often, but then, I don't listen to the others much either.

Prescott · 19 Mar 2008, 22:54

robertzombie said: "I also wonder what road he'd go down if we had a new album? He's done the "trad goth" stuff, done the synths and done the RAWK! what next? The "new" tracks (thate we've heard) would suggest Vision Thing 2 but I don't think he'd want to do that. Maybe that's why we don't have a new album, he can't think of what to do."

If you take a listen to Tarwater, specifically keep in mind that Tarwater's first release was in 1996. The latest release 2007's 'Spider Smile' came right after Miss Detroit went back home, there are a few break up songs on there. Not to mention my signature is from the chorus of 'A Marriage In Belmont', which references Ribbons and the drums sound quite a bit like the good Dokter.

He obviously doesn't want too many people to know it's him singing on Tarwater. Who knows why. Those who want to deny it's him can go ahead. I know it's him singing on these albums. The subject of the title song, 'Tar' of their first release, '11/6 12/10', yes that's the name of the album, the lyrics are all about falling in love with a scene that is represented by a found piece of tar, but then the scene turns dark, and the singing trying to escape feels himself stuck in "quick sand". Sounds like his sentiments around that time. All the vocals are listed as "Lippok" who I don't doubt makes the music. But the vocals are unmistakable. On "Rabbit Moon -Revisited" there is a lyrics credit for Andrew Eldritch on "Mobile Home" a weird remix of Mother Russia.

Prescott · 19 Mar 2008, 23:00

The Tarwater stuff is all made in Berlin. The Lippok guy looks familiar in photos, but the photos aren't of Eldritch. Lippok would have a German accent. Not the same exact Ely/Leeds accent Andrew has. The guy singing on every Tarwater album does NOT have a Berliner or any other German accent. The lyrics are good, yet sparse. I think this is the musical direction he wanted to go in yet knew that no Sisters fan would buy into it as Sisters material. Everyone should listen to Tarwater and decide for themselves, but I'm already convinced that Andrew truly has been sleeping with all the 'girls' in Berlin since 1996, which at the time he could have gotten in trouble with his still being under contract with Warner, so he couldn't list his name then, and simply decided along the way that there was no need to after either. Better to remain anonymous I guess.

I wonder why though?

6FeetOver · 19 Mar 2008, 23:03

dinky daisy wrote:It is the best album by the Sisters. Those who deny, will come out of the closet the other day.

You're quite mad, good sir.

Ozpat · 19 Mar 2008, 23:12

Interesting posts Prescott......

robertzombie · 19 Mar 2008, 23:20

I've Youtube'd Tarwater, we'll see...

Hexe Luciferia · 20 Mar 2008, 00:09

Mhmmm...I don't know...I'm not that much into "Vision Thing", as for me, the best will always be First and Last and Always and Some Girls...
I do have difficulties in "identifying" Vision Thing with the Sisters, to be fair...

mh · 20 Mar 2008, 00:28

Aye, it's not a bad LP (unless you're Keith) but definitely not up to the standard. Best place to listen to VT is in a dank and grimy metal bar.

Works pretty well there.

eotunun · 20 Mar 2008, 01:49

Prescott wrote:Lippok would have a German accent. Not the same exact Ely/Leeds accent Andrew has. The guy singing on every Tarwater album does NOT have a Berliner or any other German accent.

When Andrew speaks german, he talks in a very well developed Hamurgian accent, and I guess that quite a few people wouldn't notice instantly they aren't talking to a native northerner.

I wouldn't be surprised if I heard him speak a flawless "High German". He lived here long enough to get used to the sound of it.

eotunun · 20 Mar 2008, 01:56

Took me quite a while to really get into VT, now I am. Ribbons is one of my favourite Sisters-tracks, and on stage, all these songs are jewels. What would concerts be without Vision Thing or Ribbons as occasion to got frantic? I can't think of the Sisters today without those tunes.

Prescott · 20 Mar 2008, 05:01

Point was the studio versions of Tarwater's stuff sound identical to Andrew. Not deep voiced (forced I would say)FALAA Andrew, more like Andrew on Vision Thing or closer to his natural speaking voice, listen to his interviews and compare to Tarwater. What I meant was for a German group their singer only sings in English and sure does sound like he's from Yorkshire. YouTube won't be as much help as iTunes. Just check out the 30 second long clips of 11/6 12/10 and Spider Smile on iTunes.

sultan2075 · 20 Mar 2008, 11:29

Prescott wrote:Point was the studio versions of Tarwater's stuff sound identical to Andrew. Not deep voiced (forced I would say)FALAA Andrew, more like Andrew on Vision Thing or closer to his natural speaking voice, listen to his interviews and compare to Tarwater. What I meant was for a German group their singer only sings in English and sure does sound like he's from Yorkshire. YouTube won't be as much help as iTunes. Just check out the 30 second long clips of 11/6 12/10 and Spider Smile on iTunes.

Oh, there's definitely a similarity, especially on songs like Tesla, but I'm not convinced it's him, though I can certainly see why one might think so. The timbre of his voice is very, very close though. There's much more of a case to be made for the claim that he's the voice of Tarwater than there is that he's the voice of, say.... The Merry Thoughts.

Dr. Moody · 20 Mar 2008, 12:44

Tarwater is a nice find but I would say it aint

.
Pity cos I'd love to think he's been secretly making music, I think the real truth of the matter is he got everything he ever wanted from the Sisters and a whole lot of grief and misunderstanding too.
After leaving e/w they should have made a record but for whatever reason around that time there was a final loss of enthusiasm, writers block,drugs, debt ? only he knows . People on here have heard paris riots so maybe I'm wrong and we've yet to uncover the treasure trove, but sadly I think his heart's not in it anymore, ask Ben and Chris I'm sure they want to make a sisters album.
Now he tours purely on his own terms, no interviews, no speaking to the crowd and no surprises.
Always thought there was a link between the endless repetition of the same set and amphetamines, which must have addled his brain and body pretty seriously.Maybe he had a breakdown, who knows its all old news and pointless rhetoric now. How about an autobiography von ? (Its all in the songs I know.)

Vision thing is a glittering jewel of o.t.t rock greatness and everything the Sisters always were right from the start.... a rock'n roll band. like the man said early nineties sisters rocked like a motherfucker (pity they never visionthinged adrenachrome).

sultan2075 · 20 Mar 2008, 17:50

Prescott wrote: If you take a listen to Tarwater, specifically keep in mind that Tarwater's first release was in 1996. The latest release 2007's 'Spider Smile' came right after Miss Detroit went back home, there are a few break up songs on there. Not to mention my signature is from the chorus of 'A Marriage In Belmont', which references Ribbons and the drums sound quite a bit like the good Dokter.

Alright, I'm listening to 'A Marriage in Belmont' right now, and I must admit: it sounds much less like him than 'Tesla' off of Dwellers did, and.... I don't see how the drums sound like the Doktor at all. That said, the chorus lyric is reminiscent of his recent work, I will admit.

Prescott · 20 Mar 2008, 22:18

@Sultan: Yes, I agree that the vocals to A Marriage In Belmont are slightly higher in pitch, yet only slightly. The following track, Lower Manhattan Pantoum sounds quite a bit like him though. Besides who else would know what a Pantoum is anyhow. I'd bet T.S. Eliot used pantoums. I think I'll research that. Obviously I will concede that I do not know for certain, perhaps I am wrong about all this. Yet don't forget his own description of what he was doing on the side:

"While the Time Warner subsidiary flatly refused to let the Sisters go under the terms they proposed, the frontman and the soul of the band Andrew Eldritch was amusing himself by recording what he described in the Virgin.Net interview as "ambient-pop-industrial-techno hybrid with tunes and intelligence" and releasing it under unknown name(s) (rumor has it that there were two albums released, though none was tracked down by fans), doing remixes for Die Krupps, writing regular German columns about computers, communicating with his fans through Underneath the Rock fanzines and, according to Mojo interview, spending "10 months [a year] at home with my cats, locked into my computer"."

From Roadkill/Goldkill section of www.tours.tsom.org

Besides if someone on this forum actually has heard and possesses Paris Riots why not share at least one song with everyone else?

Syberberg · 21 Mar 2008, 19:51

Prescott wrote:@Sultan: Yes, I agree that the vocals to A Marriage In Belmont are slightly higher in pitch, yet only slightly. The following track, Lower Manhattan Pantoum sounds quite a bit like him though. Besides who else would know what a Pantoum is anyhow. I'd bet T.S. Eliot used pantoums. I think I'll research that. Obviously I will concede that I do not know for certain, perhaps I am wrong about all this. Yet don't forget his own description of what he was doing on the side:

"While the Time Warner subsidiary flatly refused to let the Sisters go under the terms they proposed, the frontman and the soul of the band Andrew Eldritch was amusing himself by recording what he described in the Virgin.Net interview as "ambient-pop-industrial-techno hybrid with tunes and intelligence" and releasing it under unknown name(s) (rumor has it that there were two albums released, though none was tracked down by fans), doing remixes for Die Krupps, writing regular German columns about computers, communicating with his fans through Underneath the Rock fanzines and, according to Mojo interview, spending "10 months [a year] at home with my cats, locked into my computer"."

From Roadkill/Goldkill section of www.tours.tsom.org

Besides if someone on this forum actually has heard and possesses Paris Riots why not share at least one song with everyone else?

From that Virgin.net interview:

Andrew Eldritch" wrote:You are very well-informed. That is a rumour I will not deny (although I prefer the description "ambient-pop-industrial-techno hybrid with tunes and intelligence"). Nor would I confirm it if it were true - because rumour has it that I actually performed the albums in question. My contract with East West prevents me from being a featured artist in any other arena, and East West are prepared to spend a lot of money in court to uphold their belief that the contract is still in force. Even if I had a pathological need to openly perform on records, I would need an awful lot of money to assert my freedom. I have neither, so it's not much of an issue.

Actually, East West are preparing to spend a lot of money in court to uphold their belief that I should be forced to make records for them. Most labels give up when the artist has been on strike for four years or so. East West are so desperate that they won't give up ...after seven years. That really is desperate.

That should make things as clear as mud. Believe what you will, or be willfully ignorant. The choice is entirely up to you.