Heartland

exploiting the 'uberfan' (or 'true fan') worked for trent reznor with 'ghosts', and i know people here have suggested von should try it

this is an interesting article which proposes that movie studios should do the same which i found interesting:

http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/st ... bution.php

...

NIN frontman Trent Reznor realized that in order to make money, he needed only to appeal to his true fans, his überfans. He gave the first part of his four part album away for free on the Internet, and then offered higher quality downloads, and "deluxe" physical packages for a price ranging from $5 to $300.

The result was that his true fans ate it up. Reznor pulled in $750,000 in three days from sales of music to his core fan base, and may have picked up a few new true fans along the way via the free downloads.

...

and this explains more about the theory behind the 'true fans' approach to getting the most out of the 'long tail' business model:

http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/lo ... e_fans.php

part of me thinks it could work for von, but like all things he's tried over the last few years he needs to get of his 'arris and do it sooner rather than later - while he's still got enough fans left to generate any decent revenue

what do you lot think?

I'd be up for it, but implies the man cares/can be bothered.....

Just keep payment via Credit cards out of the game, and I'd go for it as well. No question.

I mentioned the same business model as well. I truly believe Andrew could make at least half as much in at least twice the time. Which would still be a phenomenal triumph. He would be able to cut out many middle men and make plenty of money and retain complete artistic freedom and control. He would merely have to work out payment plans with Mr. Pearson and company as far as royalties are concerned. Or he could start from scratch with something completely new we haven't yet heard, to prove to Adam and the rest that there is serious money in it for them as well f they go along for the ride. If an autographed set of vinyl copies of the new album with a photo book or some such "superfan set" like Reznor did with Ghosts, I would pay the crazy $750.00 for it. Easily.

Andrew it's your calling, it could be your time, again.

Prescott wrote:
Andrew it's your calling, it could be your time, again.

See post #2

Andrew's business model is a gig or tour every now and then so he can feed the cats.

He cannot be bothered to release stuff I guess.

on the other hand, it takes Eldo a few days in the studio, ok maybe weeks to finish his songs with the dok and some guitars, while a tour keeps him from sleeping, a clean shower and brings him a voice that sounds like a cracked dripping coffee machine.

Potentially, it could work.

However I think perhaps you have to be very careful to strike the right balance for your fan base with this sort of thing ... and to achieve that you have to be pretty well in touch with them to have an idea of how many will be happy to pay stupid money .. medium money and regular money.

Of course you can't please all of the people all of the time ... you'd just have to be careful to please sufficient of them enough of the time not to alienate the majority of the fan base and risk being branded overly elitist and exploitative.

dinky daisy wrote:on the other hand, it takes Eldo a few days in the studio, ok maybe weeks to finish his songs with the dok and some guitars, while a tour keeps him from sleeping, a clean shower and brings him a voice that sounds like a cracked dripping coffee machine.

Which songs. He needs approval of Varkak, Pearson and maybe others I guess.

Which songs. He needs approval of Varkak, Pearson and maybe others I guess. [/quote]

If they sell anywhere near the same amount as NIN i'm sure they'd want a slice of that particular pie. They'd be fools to say no.

matt..

Quiff Boy wrote:exploiting the 'uberfan' (or 'true fan') worked for trent reznor with 'ghosts', and i know people here have suggested von should try it

this is an interesting article which proposes that movie studios should do the same which i found interesting:

http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/st ... bution.php

...

NIN frontman Trent Reznor realized that in order to make money, he needed only to appeal to his true fans, his überfans. He gave the first part of his four part album away for free on the Internet, and then offered higher quality downloads, and "deluxe" physical packages for a price ranging from $5 to $300.

The result was that his true fans ate it up. Reznor pulled in $750,000 in three days from sales of music to his core fan base, and may have picked up a few new true fans along the way via the free downloads.

...

and this explains more about the theory behind the 'true fans' approach to getting the most out of the 'long tail' business model:

http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/lo ... e_fans.php

part of me thinks it could work for von, but like all things he's tried over the last few years he needs to get of his 'arris and do it sooner rather than later - while he's still got enough fans left to generate any decent revenue

what do you lot think?

cough

cough

blatant self promotion...

for fans qb not a bad idea if our dear von would indulge in such a project, it's basically up to the man really. i'm sure he has enough to pull it off and we as the uberfans would be delighted. it would, i think depend on how much he is arsed with just being von for the sisters of mercy.

many of you folk have given up on the idea that anything will ever happen...

us possesive types hang on for that dear delight...

but again up to the man himself. with the age factor, as an objective view, he still has it on stage and as for photos the question is, how uber interested is he in it all, his dream became our dream but without him we have only what we have.

i for one thinks he could pull it off... and dear von i make the best coffee in the world!

I'll make the sarnies

Marillion have been working on the "true fans" model for years. Their last few albums have been financed by pre-orders before anything was even written and they got a top 10 single just a few years back simply by organising all the fans to buy it in the first week of release. Everyone who pre-orderd the albums got a limited edition deluxe package with their names in the credits.

Their forthcoming album has been financed by pre-order too but now they've started looking at Trent Reznor's model and are considering offering similar "Ultimate Editions" in addition. Personally I think this is a bit much to ask when most people have already paid upfront: now they want to bring out another version, knowing that the people who pre-order are likely to want both even though the Ultimate Edition will essentially be the same album in three different formats plus a box and a booklet. All for a few hundred pounds extra.

Even if this was the only version I personally think that asking hundreds of pounds for an album is simply exploitation. I'm all for the deluxe approach and I agree that catering to the dedicated fanbase is a successful and appealing approach, but the prices should still be sensible and affordable.

Giving your fans a special package shows them some respect and affection. Charging a week's wages doesn't.

Timing is the absent sense, what new wave will Andrew ride to fame today....or next year?

Revamping VT's slightly destructive edge might go down well in a post peak oil era

Oh yeah? MadameB

...i make the best coffee in the world!

joker!

just a stuoid question. How many Überfans are left. Is this enough? Or does it mean that every überfan has to pay hundreds of euros or pounds?
In my opinion it is a great idea. But just putting out some material and stuff for überfans means it will get realy expensive even if it´s rare and wonderful stuff.

There are a good number of Sisters fans (maybe not as obsessive as us) that aren't on Heartland (see Myspace groups, Facebook, Vampirefreaks, etc)
This forum's memberlist isn't it and I can see those other fans buying a standard jewelcase release and I think that it would do quite well (as long as you're not expecting it to storm the charts).
It would probably get some magazine attention too seeing as they are considered one of the top "goth" bands and you can easily write a story about how Eldritch has held off for years and now finally he's back in action, blah blah, etc etc.

A new album would probably have the same effect here as the Silver Bullet tour did, i.e. lots of new members

If you're talking "deluxe editions" I would imagine only the people on here (and Dominion) would buy it. Someone mentioned a £350 deluxe NIN album or something like that? I certainly wouldn't pay that much even if it was the Sisters! Wouldn't make me less of a fan though.
On the other hand, a sensibly priced digipak, maybe with a few bonus tracks and a nice booklet, even throw in a poster, yeah I'd buy that. Let's face it, it's not hard (or expensive) to stick some live tracks on an extra disc and call it a "special edition" for an extra 5 or even 10 quid.

I also don't think it would be hard for Eldritch to get a record deal, as long as it was a sensible deal. If he wanted the £3million mega money deal then he should've done it in the early 90s, when he still had a chance. Now he has to accept that he's not major label material but I'm sure some smaller labels would sign him in an instant. I don't know how big d-monic's budget is but if he approached them with a sensible deal them I'm sure they'd at least try to sign him, if he rang Black Heat I'm sure they'd sign him too

The reissues were released on Rhino. I wonder what kind of deal Eldritch had with them (surely he had to be involved somehow to have them released?) Was it just for the reissue of those three albums or was there something else in it? If he approved of Rhino to release them then surely he'd approve of releasing a new product under Rhino?
The old versions of the albums (the jewelcase ones) seem to be have been removed from circulation, (at least my two nearby HMVs have stopped stocking them) with the exception of Overbombing, allthough I haven't seen Some Girls lately. Does that mean Warner/WEA have cancelled all contact/contracts with Eldritch and it's all in Rhino's hands now? Surely there'd be no point in them continuing to release the standard albums when you can buy ones with bonus tracks.

I'm sure Metropolis would sign him in an instant. Or possibly one of the labels that has all the goth-metal bands that are so fond of citing The Girls as an influence when they plainly went right over their heads, like SPV or Century Media or someone like that. Whether he would want to, and what that would accomplish... well, both of those are a different story. Were it me, I wouldn't sign a record contract with anyone in this day and age. The record company is dying a slow, painful, and frankly much-deserved death. It's a very corrupt business that has gotten rich for decades by screwing over artists and performers.

I couldn't imagine recording The Sisters would be a big-budget affair with current technology (unless Eldritch wants Jim Steinman and a choir or two... )- synths and big, crunchy guitars playing pretty simple riffs are just about the easiest things on the planet to record. Find a good room in which to record the acoustics and the vocals, and you're set. Might have to hire a proper studio for that to really get it right, but even then, finding someone with a quality setup to record vocal tracks at a reasonable rate isn't difficult. It's not as if you couldn't make a Sisters record without a huge major label advance these days.

I don't think copyright's an issue, as Eldritch would have to pay Pearson et al. royalties for live performance if it was, same as a cover version. Even in a recording situation, again, it's just a royalty payment that's necessary, which is a legal thing and nothing more. Thus the third-rate goth and metal bands who've covered The Sisters on record- you don't need permission from anyone, just to pay the copyright holder, and as long as you do that, they can't stop you.

Honestly, I think Eldritch can't be arsed, for whatever reason. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I don't think I will be. I'll still listen to the albums, and go to the show if they're near me, but I don't expect any recordings that weren't made by some guy in the crowd.

i don't think eldritch could give a f**k. unless it was a girl from berlin...

Llamatron wrote:I don't think copyright's an issue, as Eldritch would have to pay Pearson et al. royalties for live performance if it was, same as a cover version. Even in a recording situation, again, it's just a royalty payment that's necessary, which is a legal thing and nothing more. Thus the third-rate goth and metal bands who've covered The Sisters on record- you don't need permission from anyone, just to pay the copyright holder, and as long as you do that, they can't stop you.

Actually they can. Usually they don't, the whole point of publishing agents being to save copyright owners from dealing with the admin and to secure them extra money from their work. But the publishers and agents don't have final say - that still rests with the owner (in this case the writer/composer). The best known example I can think of off the top of my head is Oasis - sensibly (did I really use that word in relation to the Gallagher brothers?) - refusing permission for Wonderwall to be covered on that stupid Smurfs album.

So if Adam's determined that his songs will only be released in a manner of his choosing, he'll have issued instructions to the publishers, which they'll have to follow.

Perhaps Von should sit down for beer/coffee with Reznor? - His INTERSCOPE label (correct me if I am wrong) have done very well for themselves.

I figure they are signed to a major label for distribution/promotion/sales but overall artistic control lies with Mr Reznor.

Also, perhaps the releasing of the "Suzzane" live demo on the official site was "testing the waters" and I for one remember the message posted within days that the site had crashed and the DL was no longer available.

I would certainly be interested in pre-ordering product, if the cost was not excessive, if that money would be used to create actual physical "shiny disc's"

Andy TG wrote:Perhaps Von should sit down for beer/coffee with Reznor?

This should be fun to watch.

new business model for eldritch: just release some new music for fuck' sake!

stufarq wrote:the publishers and agents don't have final say - that still rests with the owner

That's actually quite saddening, as the extent to which Sisters songs have appeared on 3rd rate goffix "man with a headcold in a Darth Vader helmet at the bottom of a 300 foot well" tributes and compilations really does show how little Von gives a flying one.

New business model for Eldritch: just admit you've no intention and put it out of it's misery, for cryin' out loud.

Songs appearing on compilations is exactly the sort of thing artists leave up to the publishing company to deal with. It's just a bit of extra cash and for the most part no-one's really going to care too much about the quality. Compilations are so rife that it's hardly seen as an endorsement. The publisher would generally know when to check with the artists first and songs can always be withdrawn if there are later objections. (This has happened a couple of times with Sisters songs that appeared on film or TV soundtracks but then had to be replaced on DVDs, repeat broadcasts etc.)

It's only when the likes of papa Smurf comes along asking to eviscerate your work that people really start to put their feet down.