Heartland

Not a regular contributor to this site (I check in time to time to see whats cooking:). Having just listened to FLAA in the office for the umpteenth time - it's got me thinking.
I liked the SOM back in the mid-80s. Just a bit too young to gave caught them live - the M***** introduced me to them basically. Eek.
But what I liked about them and what it 'got me into' was the more Stooges/Detroit/Gonzoid 'rock/metal' side of things which they (well Eldritch innit really) seemed to pretty quickly dispense with - but which bands like say .... Loop or Spacemen 3 did in their own way without the gothic overtones (and lets not beat around he bush this is gothic....
During the late 80s these aforementioned bands took that whole Detroit sound coupled with ya psychedelia and elements of Krautrock - sorry Kosmiche music - and created something pretty special.
What I'm trying to say is I don't care quite so much for their much later full on Steinman produced pomp of Floodland (though I do like that album a lot) or later the more 'industrial metal' side of things circa Vision Thing. Having seen the band a few times over the last 10 years I'm not so much of a fan for what they're peddling now (though some of the tunes are still pretty good:)
Does anyone else think if they'd gone more 'garage'/stripped down (like a more Stoogian take on Reptile House) it may have been a tad more interesting?
This is like fantasy SOM I know...
Sorry this is a rather garbled train of thought posting - but was wondering what folks think?

Yes.

A tad more interesting FOR YOU, you mean to say.

Should i even mention how stupid it is to hanker after a band you don't quite like - how they should've done things differently? If you don't like it, move on, plenty of more stripped down/garage style stuff out there (and if there weren't, it still wouldn't be anybody else's problem but yours).

God, what is wrong with people really? It's a disease, i tells ya. Things are getting sicker by the day.

Ah the art of reasoned debate
I'm not saying I dislike the band or looking for a squabble here - I'm just hypothesizing - cool you boots Squire
Maybe I didn't make meself clear. I thought there was a wee bit of a Stoogian/Gonzoid vibe to early-mid period SOM (which I enjoyed and still) - cover of 1969 and general late '60 Stooges look as well. SOM (as a musical outfit) turned me onto said band (as well as some other cool stuff) then took a turn away from that particular musicall vibe. I was stating an opinion - clearly not a popular one - so I'll bid y'all adieu.

Smallstone wrote:Ah the art of reasoned debate
I'm not saying I dislike the band or looking for a squabble here - I'm just hypothesizing - cool you boots Squire
Maybe I didn't make meself clear. I thought there was a wee bit of a Stoogian/Gonzoid vibe to early-mid period SOM (which I enjoyed and still) - cover of 1969 and general late '60 Stooges look as well. SOM (as a musical outfit) turned me onto said band (as well as some other cool stuff) then took a turn away from that particular musicall vibe. I was stating an opinion - clearly not a popular one - so I'll bid y'all adieu.

Don't go, and anything that annoys itnaklipse is a always welcome.

Gollum's Cock wrote:

Smallstone wrote:Ah the art of reasoned debate
I'm not saying I dislike the band or looking for a squabble here - I'm just hypothesizing - cool you boots Squire
Maybe I didn't make meself clear. I thought there was a wee bit of a Stoogian/Gonzoid vibe to early-mid period SOM (which I enjoyed and still) - cover of 1969 and general late '60 Stooges look as well. SOM (as a musical outfit) turned me onto said band (as well as some other cool stuff) then took a turn away from that particular musicall vibe. I was stating an opinion - clearly not a popular one - so I'll bid y'all adieu.

Don't go, and anything that annoys itnaklipse is a always welcome.

yeah.. don't mind the local basketcase.. he actually comments on everything which takes more than 2 braincells to fully understand..
he tends to get in apocalyptic freakmode and randomly insult peolple just to insure his complete lack of any future personal contact and/or interaction..

about your statement..

i like the early stuff alot.. and imo, reptilehouse is one of the best ever made EP's.. but wouldn't you fear what they would have sounded like if they would do that style for over 25 years?
the evolved along with the distortion guitar rock of the mid 80's, the electronic new-wave style of the late 80's and with the euro trashrock of the early 90's.. and now, they are just pure Rock 'n Roll..
and i wouldn't want it any other way..

Very interesting that you picked up on the Loop/Spacemen connection here. This is something that's fascinated me for quite some time, being a fan of both bands as well as of the Sisters, how bands with essentially the very same influences can end up sounding so wildly different.

I don't mean to derail your thread, but it's a topic I'd be interested in discussing further.

I agree.

all that musical snobbery crap aside, I think that their early stuff (god that already sounds so pretentious) hasn't dated at all, and stands up today.

Going back recently and listening to the mid period material, I'd say that my interest waned after FALAA. Floodland has aged badly and I haven't listened to anything more recent. IMO etc...

great post and something I need to think more about when I'm less knackered. I do think that their garage sound (lofi avantgarde/minimalist reptile house era) is pretty unique.

ghostrider is spot on, pure rock'n'roll

I'm kind of inclined to agree with Harvey, but as the years go by I find myself leaning more and more towards the weird dub/funk/metal sound they were peddling in 82. Totally unique and wonderful.

Hey there - what the hell was in the water in 1982?! Industrial dub metal... funk?! I was way to young to know what was going on outside of the top 40 (listening to Madness and the Jam) - but it's a fascinating time for music. Birthday Party, Mekons, Fall, Gang Of Four, Theatre of Hate, ya general pre: 'goth' positive Punk scene (anyone remember 'positive punk'?!) and SOM...

I'm just looking at this from a kinda cultural theory side of things. All this music was bubbling under and existing happily in the 'indie' charts and weekly music press, late night 'specialist radio' and fanzines.... before indie music or alternative music (or whatever you want to call it) became the mainstream like it has over the past 15 years. Indie landfill....
SOM had their day in the sun (sales wise) late eighties - early nineties as we all know.

SOM get pigeon holed too much IMO in the 'goth' scene (for obvious reasons) and whilst they have progressed into the industrial metal groove machine they are today (at least live...) I think they were doing something pretty special around Reptile House and up to FLAA. But there's even a sea change between these releases.... Major label involvement I guess.

Sorry maybe I need to actually write this into an essay!
My point (do I have one?) is that I guess that generally the band is jubdged by what happened post FLAA and the 'pop years' - so the early years are of less over all interest - but the 'early stuff' (incl. ya one off singles) is ultimately more rewarding artistically? To me anyway.
However in the accepted history of the time bands like SOM and ya TOHs, ya Cults etc who were popular in the underground get passed over as they became TOO popular in a pop sense later on.... Yeah?
I guess this has been chewed over before - but it's all a matter of AEs sense of 'presentation' at the end of the day... Which is why I'm non-plussed by his non-action now... another story I know!
Sorry for rambling

Glad you didn't let itnAklipse scare you away.

I think one major difference was the replacement of Ben Gunn by That Guitarist (Some time late 83 - early 84)

mh wrote: ... the weird dub/funk/metal sound they were peddling in 82. Totally unique and wonderful.

For sure! Without that stuff I probably wouldn't be here... it was those early singles & ep that made me fall for them hard. Over the years I really learned to appreciate the albums too (all 3 of them!), but I might not have taken the time/effort if it wasn't because I loved the band so much already I still think The Reptile House ep is the best thing they ever pressed on vinyl and Some girls wander... is one of the very best albums around (even if it isn't a real album)!

Lovely thread by the way. I've been thinking/wondering/dreaming about this kind of stuff too over the years. Especially the Suicide/Stooges influences that were very obvious in the early days. I love that punked up sound... dangerous & wild. On top of that they looked great too

On the other hand it's not something that can be forced. Fake 'punk/garage' is quite painful and thus it's a good thing they started doing other things when their (or his?) heart wasn't there anymore. Hussey & Adams have said more than once that The Sisters split in 85 mainly came down to that: they wanting to rock hard and Eldritch more interested in songwriting and a more accessible/open sound...

Falaa already has less of that punk sound. By that time the Fleetwood Mac influence became more important I guess. I also understand Von didn't want to be a 'cult' hero, but a genuine songwriter and therefor kinda left the path they were on before.

Anyway, they have had a very interesting evolution and when that kinda stopped, the release of albums also stopped.
I do see some options for the future though
For instance they could become a band again, now with Chris , Ben and Simon D all contributing. Whatever direction they wanna go, that could produce interesting material. Or Eldritch can go for the more minimal aproach and produce some more intimate songs: his voice & a laptop or so. For me he may also start using more of the dub thing he seems to be fond of... dream baby dream

Don't be bothered about ItnaKlipse. Didn't took his Ritalin.

Lately i got more and more into Reptile House EP's etc. Floorshow, Phantom etc. is very garage to me, and and miles away from stupid bats and latex wavers in caves.

So, anyhow, i think for instance The Jesus And Mary Chain and The Sisters were quite similar in their early days. Vegetable Man (Barrett cover) and Suck of The Chain have the same atmosphere. They both were born from The Stooges and Velvets. In that way, i get what you mean.

Floorshow: best song ever. word.

@Daisy.... for mentioning Phantom! Love that song & could listen to it for hours. Kinda puts one in a trance.

Nork1 wrote:Yes.

No!

msm67 wrote:@Daisy.... for mentioning Phantom! Love that song & could listen to it for hours. Kinda puts one in a trance.

Thirded on Phantom. I always though it was a really cool track, and something of an early indication that the Sisters were prepared to push beyond the boundaries of their chosen style.

I think what is being discussed here is 'the spirit of the age'. Punk was well and truly over by 1980 and psychedelia was coming back and acid and weed was popular again so what as being produced musically was the sound of the drugs of the time, interpreted in slightly different ways. After punk bands started drawing on their influences from an earlier time.
Personally i never heard The Stooges in the music of The Sisters (other than the obvious cover) or even Suicide come to that, I thought they had more of a country & western thing going on(cowboys as opposed to The Ants & Southern death Cult 'Injun' thing)

more Stones and Doors for me

has always reminded me of Lou Reed

too animated for Lou

Can't stand L. R, far too arrogant. The man seems to believe he's some kind of gift to humanity, who of course doesn't deserve him.
Eldritch's arrogance has always struck me as a down-to-earth kind; the kind of arrogance you could have a pint with. Or a dozen. One that doesn't take itself too seriously where it shouldn't, really.
Of course I might be dead wrong. I've never met either of them in person.

nowayjose wrote:Of course I might be dead wrong

nah, you're no ItnAklipse

moses - I'm not so sure it was the zeitgeist, although I wasn't really old enough to fully appreciate it at the time.

I concur with the stooges and velvets comparisons, but all about the intent of the delivery, not necessarily the content.

not so sure about spacemen 3, they had some good songs, but weren't up there with the sisters, and I think their slightly naive emphasis on drugs detracted from the overall package. Loop, albeit viewed as a derivative spacemen3, set a high standard but were not in the same league, and obviously scions. some cracking tunes though. smallstone, you made me go back and listen to them for the first time this year.

from the drug point of view, I came across the saying "black clothes and white drugs" (or similar) on this forum, which I think is brilliant, it captures the edginess and just how involving the music is. nihilistic, yes, which you don't really get from acid and weed.

+1 on Floorshow.

+1 on stupid bats

+1 on phantom, that beautiful pseudo-Leone arid tone and texture.

for a reformation and to reproduce some of that killer harsh, dry, utterly focussed material, well, as King Kev would say... I would love it, just love it.

James Blast wrote:more Stones and Doors for me

And a bit of Motorhead