Heartland

we have just been discussing this in the office, thought I might throw it open to discussion.

...despite humanity's efforts to fcuk it up.

That it is, despite what we throw at it.

Norman Hunter wrote:That it is, despite what we throw at it.

Indeed, I'm in a bit of a cynical mood today.

The world, and nature in general, is neutral and indifferent. Wonderfully, gloriously so.
Beauty really is in the eye of the beholder, a subjective perception that many if not most human beings share, with good reason. What a bizarre design fault it would be if we had evolved a terrible aversion to our own planet.

It's neither beautiful nor ugly. It just is. My own feeling is that this is incredibly beautiful in itself.
But to be honest, I think the idea of "beauty" pales against the awesomeness (in the truest sense of the word, no Bill and Ted here) of nature. What a petty little human concept it seems sometimes.

All IMHO of course. I'm sure Plato would vehemently disagree, but I never liked him anyway, plus he's not on HL.

Plato Schmato. Awesomeness is true. just look at some pictures of colliding galaxies without it taking away your breath.

fcuk the world, I wanna get off

Aye, it all started for me with the astronomy posters I had on my wall when I was little... I was a cool kid

Earth, as a planet in all its diversity of fauna and flora, is wonderful. 'The World' as a globally encompassing societal concept is s**t. And that's a good thing, otherwise there would be no Goth music in which to exorcize all the Weltschmerz and cynicism that comes with it...

weebleswobble wrote:fcuk the world, I wanna get off

next stop - last stop, the terminous is where you want it to be but I wouldn't recommend it. Just get off your bus and look around, there is beauty everywhere, even under the loneliest rock.

My bed with a good book and a nice cup of tea is about all of it I can handle just now, thanks. Any more is just too scarey.

Gripper wrote:My bed with a good book and a nice cup of tea is about all of it I can handle just now, thanks. Any more is just too scarey.

I know the feeling....

weebleswobble wrote:

Gripper wrote:My bed with a good book and a nice cup of tea is about all of it I can handle just now, thanks. Any more is just too scarey.

I know the feeling....

Stop watching Dr Who!

Ahráyeph wrote:Earth, as a planet in all its diversity of fauna and flora, is wonderful. 'The World' as a globally encompassing societal concept is s**t. And that's a good thing, otherwise there would be no Goth music in which to exorcize all the Weltschmerz and cynicism that comes with it...

Like Carl McCoy wrote.

Between the cracks and hollows, the earth is good!

Replace earth with world here.
Too bad that observations suggest the universe has a rather foamy structure..

all i want is for people to leave my bit of it alone.

boudicca wrote: But to be honest, I think the idea of "beauty" pales against the awesomeness (in the truest sense of the word, no Bill and Ted here)

Awe includes a sense of dread in it's meaning whereas beauty implies graceful or exquisite aesthetic pleasure for the senses. I would hope you don't find the World dreadful in it's nature, that would be such a shame.

moses wrote:

boudicca wrote: But to be honest, I think the idea of "beauty" pales against the awesomeness (in the truest sense of the word, no Bill and Ted here)

Awe includes a sense of dread in it's meaning whereas beauty implies graceful or exquisite aesthetic pleasure for the senses. I would hope you don't find the World dreadful in it's nature, that would be such a shame.

Do you think so?

I would say, why on earth should it be a shame? Why should my puny little feelings matter a jot?
I would indeed be filled with dread if I had a stream of hot molten lava chasing me down the side of a volcano, or if I was caught in the tsunami of a few years ago. Earth may be our "mother" in that we are born of "her" (eugh though all that kind of anthropomorphic stuff makes my toes curl), but the idea that "she" is like an ideal human mother, all love, grace and protection... strikes me as nonsensical. It (lets have no more of the "she") is far greater than that, I think.

Why should a human being not feel dread in the face of forces which could assmiliate them at any second? The real shame to me is if a person cannot find any beauty in that dread, and only in the aesthetic delights of a rose or a sunset or any of the other things our senses tend to render pleasurable to us.

boudicca wrote: I would indeed be filled with dread if I had a stream of hot molten lava chasing me down the side of a volcano, or if I was caught in the tsunami of a few years ago.

I haven't experienced those things and tend not to let the idea of 'what if' get in the way of enjoying the (sometimes) overwhelming beauty of nature. If I were to ponder on such things I would think it such a waste of my valuable time - a bit like being afraid of the bogey-man and staying in doors at night therefore never to experience a sky full of stars or the full moon. So yes I do think it's a shame. But if you see beauty in the dread then at least it's a kind beauty you see.

The world is what you make out of it. If you can see the beauty it's beautiful - if you see the bad things, it can be that too.

moses wrote:

boudicca wrote: I would indeed be filled with dread if I had a stream of hot molten lava chasing me down the side of a volcano, or if I was caught in the tsunami of a few years ago.

I haven't experienced those things and tend not to let the idea of 'what if' get in the way of enjoying the (sometimes) overwhelming beauty of nature. If I were to ponder on such things I would think it such a waste of my valuable time - a bit like being afraid of the bogey-man and staying in doors at night therefore never to experience a sky full of stars or the full moon. So yes I do think it's a shame. But if you see beauty in the dread then at least it's a kind beauty you see.

I think you misunderstand me. I don't fear getting caught up in a natural disaster particularly. I live in Scotland, all that happens here is you get a bit of rain. And I love nothing more than looking up at a sky full of stars or sitting on top of a mountain. To me - in my subjectivity - they are beautiful things indeed.

I don't see the dangerous (to humans) forces of nature as being like "the bogey man" as you put it. If, by some freak chance, I ever did find myself running several miles in a hopeless attempt to escape that lava flow I mentioned earlier, I'd like to think that I'd turn round and welcome it with open arms.

weebleswobble wrote:fcuk the world, I wanna get off

Stop the world right now, see if I care.

Stop the world right now, see if I care.

I think we all stopped caring about GD after THAT song.

boudicca wrote: I live in Scotland, all that happens here is you get a bit of rain. And I love nothing more than looking up at a sky full of stars or sitting on top of a mountain. To me - in my subjectivity - they are beautiful things indeed.

Scotland has some stunning scenery. I experienced the views from the top of Ben Nevis in May when I was involved in the 3 peaks challenge. Unfortunately we didn't get to hang around for long to experience the rest of the country.

My (uninmportant) opinion:
firstly my thoughts are pretty much in line with those of boudicca as I share with her the shame that people can't find beauty in awe and "dread" (@ boudicca: correct me if I've misunderstood you ) but only in those things who are deemed as classically beautiful.
It is true and well reknown though, that beauty is a very subjective matter and we could go on and on debating on this.
(Which is, actually, the pont of the whole post )
As an example, we had quite a powerful lightning storm last friday here where I live and I was thrilled by the sight I experienced.
(I must say though that when an earthquake hit my region, eleven years ago, and trust me, it was a fckuing strong one and the quakes lasted for months, only varying in intensity, I wasn't very happy. But I was younger and caught in the middle and I didn't have the cold blood - how could one have it when the roof of your house is falling on your head? - to think:this is what makes earth amazing. Its power, unpredictable power)

I'm also one of those persons who sits on the shores and stares at the sea/ocean in silence, thinking about it.

I'll stop my ramblin cause I just got up and my spelling is a complete mess.
So, the world is yes beautiful to me, but in a quirky way. (I know I could have said just that, but I'm a woman I like to open my gob and yap away )

Hexe Luciferia wrote: It is true and well reknown though, that beauty is a very subjective matter and we could go on and on debating on this.
(Which is, actually, the pont of the whole post )

Too true. It all depends on how we look at things, and not how they are in themselves. How we view the World says more about the viewer than the World itself.
@ Boudicca To say "the world, and nature in general, is neutral and indifferent", is fundamentally correct. So I suppose the question 'is the world a beautiful place' evokes answers that say more about the person than the World.