Heartland

No, NOT a thread about bestiality but about me having ethical dilemmas!

I was a vegetarian, then I went back to eating meat, then I was Pescetarian and now am back to being a proper Veggie (this has all happened over a period of about 15 years, I didn't change my mind every five minutes)

So NOW I am trying to start to not use toiletries/household products that haven't been tested on animals and have spent all afternoon on t'internet looking for information and basically *everything* I have has been tested on animals (apart from the Lush stuff) Even Ecover! And I thought I was being a good girl buying their products

I am just appalled at how hard it seems to be to not buy things that have been tested on animals or include animal products. Co-Op is good for own brand stuff, as is Lush - though the only thing is I can't seem to get any *permament* black hair dye!! I tried using Lush's henna bars but they are just such a faff.

Even Superdrug/Boots own brands might have been tested on animals *at some point* as they can contract out to get someone else to do the dirty work, so they can still put "Against animal testing" on the packet but actually it means f**k all. "Dermatologically tested" is also dubious as I cannot find anywhere to tell me whose (human/animal) skin was used.

Does anyone else use cruelty-free products who can help me?

BTW I don't wish to turn this into an argument about people's differing ethics!!

Brideoffrankenstein wrote:(apart from the Lush stuff)

... which is now available in France, after being tested on English people !
It's not my imagination, that's what it says on the sticker !

Does anyone else use cruelty-free products who can help me?

Yes I do, but I don't know if I can be of real assistance. Some years ago, my mum saw a documentary on industrial cosmetics on TV, and she realized how much crap there was in those products. She then started to make her own products, like shampoo and soap. Then came cleaning products and all kind of stuff. She's now pretty good at it. It does take some getting used to, but it's significantly better for the environment, plus after a while you start saving a lot of money. For example, if you're interested, you'll need a good selection of essential oils, some of which can be quite pricey. But since you'll only use them in very small quantities, they'll last much longer than your crappy everyday Loreal product.
If you want, I can ask her to point me to some good sites.
As for dying your hair plain black, that might be a problem indeed. I know Lush does have a black henna bar, but I don't know how effective that is. It seems to me henna is more suited to lighter colours, like blonde or red. You don't want to get a true red head, by any chance ?

BTW : your new (or not so new, I don't know, I've been away for a loooooong time) avatar :

I was thinking that about her av
Also, Lush is f**king fantatic. My sister bought me 100g of "Ambrosia" shaving cream and 100g of "Shave The World", which is bloody brilliant

Solid shampoo is awesome.

While I am normally ok with the idea of testing stuff on animals (although why a rabbit needs a close shave is beyond me), I've found a couple of off-the-shelf brands which claim not to have been tested on furry things:

Paul Mitchell hair-care products

and my personal fave, Dr. Bronner's Magic Soaps - organic, vegan (apart from beeswax), socially and ethically aware, and their stuff really works.

There's a good site here that lists non-animal testing and vegan cosmetics outfits.

Alberto Culver (the people who make Tresemme shampoo) say that they don't test on animals, but there appears to be some question about whether or not that's the case.

Brideoffrankenstein wrote:No, NOT a thread about bestiality but about me having ethical dilemmas!

I was a vegetarian, then I went back to eating meat, then I was Pescetarian and now am back to being a proper Veggie (this has all happened over a period of about 15 years, I didn't change my mind every five minutes)

but you look a bit confused

Badlander wrote:I know Lush does have a black henna bar, but I don't know how effective that is.

I tried it not long ago, and it was a bit of a performance really! It took all afternoon! My hair looked really good for about a week or so then I'm sure all the colour just disappeared again. I don't think I can be bothered to keep doing that every few weeks to be honest!

Once I have used up all the stuff I currently have I will try and replace it with non-animal tested stuff. I just have to go and check out the Co-Op smellies department to see what they have as they are the best for non-animal type stuff/most convenient/cheapest

I am also having a problem with toothpaste as well as hair-dye now. It seems my old fave Colgate is in the bad books too.

I just wonder how far you can take all this stuff really, if you were the most ethical you can be you would never go out of the house for fear of doing something bad. You really would have to go and live in a commune or something.....

Thanks for all your linky's I will take a look

most 'original source' bath & shower stuff is animal friendly too

http://www.originalsource.co.uk/

your best bet is to find a local co-op/ethical shop and get your supplies from there...

suffice to say it can be tricky

i try not to put myself in a box with a label, mainly way because the modern society and life is structured means that it is only ever gong to make you fail to live up to the standards imposed by such a label

instead i to think of it as 'doing what you can' to lead a cruelty-free lifestyle. find your own path & your own balance...

of course, sometimes it is just easier when people ask to tell them that you are one thing or another.

EvilBastard wrote:(although why a rabbit needs a close shave is beyond me)

Have you see them? Hairy little bastards.

There is a book you can get that give details of the products that are animal product free/animal tested free. It covers most main name brands as well as the supermarkets (tesco, sainsburys etc). There are page updates available from their website. I can't remember what the book is, but I'll ask my vegan friend as it's pretty much her bible. She does buy a lot of Lush stuff, that I do know.

original source currently have cocoa and vanilla shower stuff which is divine...

lush's black henna is pants. i just have dark brown hair.

CellThree wrote:

EvilBastard wrote:(although why a rabbit needs a close shave is beyond me)

Have you see them? Hairy little bastards.

There is a book you can get that give details of the products that are animal product free/animal tested free. It covers most main name brands as well as the supermarkets (tesco, sainsburys etc). There are page updates available from their website. I can't remember what the book is, but I'll ask my vegan friend as it's pretty much her bible. She does buy a lot of Lush stuff, that I do know.

its probably "cruelty free shopper" produced by peta

peta have a guide/list of approved companies that might help:

http://www.peta.org.uk/feat/feat-products_testing.asp

and this might be useful:

http://www.ethicalconsumer.org/

I always thought Ethics was a county in the South of England

Ramone wrote:I always thought Ethics was a county in the South of England

No - that's Thuthex.

you should check this link on pet food : http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/Spring0 ... dients.htm

Hom_Corleone wrote:

Ramone wrote:I always thought Ethics was a county in the South of England

No - that's Thuthex.

I thought Reading was a town in Berkshire before I discovered Postcards From Above The Chemist.

i thought it was just a verb

psichonaut wrote:i thought it was just a verb

No - it's a noun.

Quiff Boy wrote:instead i to think of it as 'doing what you can' to lead a cruelty-free lifestyle. find your own path & your own balance...

of course, sometimes it is just easier when people ask to tell them that you are one thing or another.

Thanks Quiffy

Yes, I am trying to do what I can but obviously I will make a few mistakes along the way.....!

I shall go to the Co-Op tomorrow!

Had forgotten that Original Source was cruelty-free though in the shops round here (what there are of them anyway) seem to have more stuff for showers and I only have a bath Will have to stock up when I go to Norwich next time.

'Original Source' is not really cruelty-free, the parent company (P Z Cussins IIRC) test on animals.

The Compassionate Shopping Guide available here: http://www.naturewatch.org/
is very good.

Animal Aid do some good stuff which is all genuinely cruelty-free: http://www.animalaidshop.org.uk/

and there is some useful info. here: http://www.uncaged.co.uk/

Passing_through wrote:'Original Source' is not really cruelty-free, the parent company (P Z Cussins IIRC) test on animals.

this is such a nice thread

I don't think you'd find a load of old punks expressing such concerns elsewhere on't web

try http://www.theecologist.org/ or http://www.nealsyardremedies.com/ if you've a small fortune you don't want to keep.

Alternatively http://www.oils4life.com/ do off the shelf stuff or you can buy all you need to make your own soaps/shampoos

      Thanks guys      I went for a little trip to the Co-Op today and was pleasantly suprised that they do *everything* I need in their own range and it's super cheap as well. When I feel I need a little bit of spoiling I shall take a look round Neal's Yard, I had some of their stuff for Christmas and it was wonderful.

Acutally taking a look at their website most things aren't actually that pricey really so might take a trip there next payday!

Isn't BodyShop ethical? I thought it was supposed to be.

EvilBastard wrote:Isn't BodyShop ethical? I thought it was supposed to be.

They were bought out by L'oreal a few years ago who do test on animals. I have searched for info about them but it seemed a bit dubious to me about their ethics before they were bought out anyway. They put "Against Animal Testing" on all their products but that doesn't mean that they don't pay someone else to do it or that their suppliers don't test on animals either. 'Tis a shame as I am rather a fan of their White Musk range!