Heartland

First of all, I realize that you've all probably have been raking over this subject repeatedly over the last several years, and in that case I'd be grateful to anyone pointing me in the right direction. (I've been going over the FAQ:s and thread archives, but so far I haven't seen a thread dealing with this specific subject.)

Otherwise, here goes:

1. The stated reasons for the band not releasing new material.

Apart from possible obstacles for new releases, like Von wanting more $ for an album than anyone is prepared to give him, especially with the "record industry" in dire straits, I believe that releasing new material could benefit the band in several ways:

a) Making money: if the band is in full control of the process (which is vastly less expensive today when compared to just a few years ago, i.e studio time, printing & pressing, making videos and artwork etc), then selling records/singles (both physical and as downloads) directly from the band's own web site, at gigs and through partners, would most likely be profitable. After all, the band still has a loyal fan base and they tour regularly.

b) Maintaining (regaining?) a public image through more coverage in the music press.

c) cementing the existing relationship with the fans.

d) finding new fans.


I just can't buy the argument that they're not releasing new material just because "there is no point because of greedy record company executives", as was stated in an interview this summer. I suspect that there might also be residual contractual reasons, despite Von claiming that the contract with East/West is terminated.

I used to run an independent record company myself, and my partner who had a major company background knew a lot of the sometimes very shady business practices going on, like the practice of forcing artists into situations where they can't release any material because the record company has exclusivity options to future material etc. I talked to her about the Sisters situation, and her immediate reaction was that the band, having such a loyal fan base, would definitely be releasing records/downloads/DVD:s etc themselves if only they were legally able to do so. She immediately thought that there must be some problems due to the East/West (or other) contract, which still make the band legally unable to releasing material themselves, and she also thought that the explanations given were not the full story, especially concerning the East/West contract.

As I realize that many of you here know more about the situation than what has been said in interviews, I'd be very interested in hearing your opinion on this.

And I so much would want to hold a new Sisters release in my hand (or in my iPhone, at least)...

To put it simply, I'm not so sure that it's a contractual reason (although it may well have been so back in '96). I think it's more that given so long has passed since the last release, Eldritch feels he can't live up to expectations (from himself as much as from the fans).

And perhaps he's scared to release a single that might well chart around number 72...

*edit* and I can't see the music press giving much of a sh!t these days, beyond lazy journalism of the "goth... prince of darkness... always wears black... sunglasses after dark" type.

markfiend wrote:To put it simply, I'm not so sure that it's a contractual reason (although it may well have been so back in '96). I think it's more that given so long has passed since the last release, Eldritch feels he can't live up to expectations (from himself as much as from the fans).

Well, I'm pretty sure he would live up to my expectations, so that's one at least...

markfiend wrote: And perhaps he's scared to release a single that might well chart around number 72...

F**k the charts. They don't reflect anything anyway, and never have. I doubt Eldritch cares much about that aspect anyway, at least I hope he doesn't.

markfiend wrote: *edit* and I can't see the music press giving much of a sh!t these days, beyond lazy journalism of the "goth... prince of darkness... always wears black... sunglasses after dark" type.

No, of course not, but at least the fact that the Sisters had a new release out would be reported in some fashion, which is useful especially for the casual fans.

I think Mark has a very valid point : Eldo just can't be bothered anymore, regardless of contractual obligations/limitations. He makes a living out of touring regularly and other stuff I know nothing about and don't want to know, while the whole routine of releasing new material on a regular basis looks like a giant pain in the ass to him. So why bother ?

What really needs to happen is for someone on the X-Factor to sing This Corrosion. Worked for Lenny...

abridged wrote:What really needs to happen is for someone on the X-Factor to sing This Corrosion. Worked for Lenny...

I might give it a go. You never know, some of the embarrassingly bad contestants have made a 15-minutes-of-fame career out of it.

/kidding

Yggdrasil wrote: a new Sisters release in my hand (or in my iPhone, at least)...

...that's one of the problems right there, the man wasn't even very keen on CDs, especially after the way Floodland was re-packaged with the B-sides bunged on the end. Plus hardly any Sissies material lives up to digital listening sonically, especially through headphones.

It's not just the state of the industry which repels him, but the culture of 21st century music consumption.

Sisters product comes on shiny black plastic, in a big cover. From a shop. Preferably a shop run by a surly man in a Sonic Youth shirt.

Whatever we do nowt's going to live up to the excitement of even the early 90s releases. Whatever you think of Under The Gun, that morning in 93 was the last time we got to hang about outside a record shop before it opened before buying alll the formats in one go and gripping them with excitement on the bus home.

We don't queue outside gigs from three in the afternoon drinking cheap vodka and sitting on kit-bags anymore, we don't pay £10 for cassette bootlegs at record-fairs anymore. The Sisters don't release albums anymore.

The whole culture of The Sisters is dead, and I think Eldritch quite likes it that way. He can survive on gigging (The only bit of the industry making any money at the moment anyway). It's not like we're missing out as we get to hear all the songs of friggin' youtube within two hours anyway, and any new product now would be a horrible dissapointment.

RobF wrote:We don't queue outside gigs from three in the afternoon drinking cheap vodka and sitting on kit-bags anymore, we don't pay £10 for cassette bootlegs at record-fairs anymore. The Sisters don't release albums anymore.

The whole culture of The Sisters is dead....

aye, 'appen yer right, t'ain't like when I were a lad, working 26 hour a day down pit, fer tuppence a week...

ahem, sorry.

on a lighter note, I do have a cunning plan to get eldo and the girls to release a new album, although its a little risky, financially.... simply start up your own band called The Sisters of Mercy GB, or The Sisterhood UK, The m*****n FC or something equally daft, head off on a European tour and issue press releases that you intend to release a single or two and see how far you get before eldo slaps an injunction on you and he rush-releases some new material to stop you going ahead with said project.

Well, it worked a treat back in 1986 and the stuff he released was fantastic!

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"We don't queue outside gigs from three in the afternoon drinking cheap vodka and sitting on kit-bags anymore."

Speak for yourself!

deadagain wrote:
aye, 'appen yer right, t'ain't like when I were a lad, working 26 hour a day down pit, fer tuppence a week...

It's not that I think it was better then, I just think the whole culture of The Sisters was always much more than the tunes. the atmosphere created by the band was a sythesis of some very key elements which just don't exist anymore or are on the wane.

Militant tour-following, grotty whizz in venue bogs across Europe, Press spats with the Mish/Journos/Their own fans, the wonderful look of shock on the face of Goff newbies as they're ejected from the front row by pissed builders from Barnsley, photocopied fanzines and tape lists changing hands in the queue... It's goes on....

The Sisters were always a real fans' band, with all the good and bad that comes with that. Inspiring obsessive, endearing and often loony behaviour in otherwise ordinary people. It's just not a way bands work anymore. Fer' Christ's sake, this is a band whose PRESS RELEASES used to be hugely exciting and funny, freebie downloads of new songs recorded on a budget with a horrid pro-tools sheen just aren't going to cut it, however good the songs are (and some of them are corkers).

RobF wrote:Sisters product comes on shiny black plastic, in a big cover. From a shop. Preferably a shop run by a surly man in a Sonic Youth shirt.

amen. (though my record shop assistant of choice was the blonde hippy chick who worked in st.martin's records on the high street in leicester circa. '86. )

I guess there could have been an exclusivity clause all those years ago but surely it would have expired by now. And would AE really have gone to such trouble to get out of the contract if it wasn't going to make any real difference? Okay, he's a cantankerous bugger so the answer's yes but bear in mind that the announcement on the oficial site still reads "Now that the moribund relationship with East West Records is officially over, it seemed reasonable to bang out a few singles - independently - while we're putting an album together" and that fell apart because Adam vetoed it, not because a previous contract prevented it.

deadagain wrote:on a lighter note, I do have a cunning plan to get eldo and the girls to release a new album, although its a little risky, financially.... simply start up your own band called The Sisters of Mercy GB, or The Sisterhood UK, The m*****n FC or something equally daft, head off on a European tour and issue press releases that you intend to release a single or two and see how far you get before eldo slaps an injunction on you and he rush-releases some new material to stop you going ahead with said project.

Well, it worked a treat back in 1986 and the stuff he released was fantastic!

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Rumour has it that it wasn't Adam all along (although he does deserve a fair blame for grinding the band into some pretty grim turgidity).

It's tempting to see some conspiracy theory, ain't it? But I still reckon it's just Von being a lazy (and contrary) old bugger, and the more people kick up over it the less inclined he'll be to do anything.

Pity really, shiny sparkly studio versions of the new stuff would be a lovely thing to have indeed.

markfiend wrote:*edit* and I can't see the music press giving much of a sh!t these days, beyond lazy journalism of the "goth... prince of darkness... always wears black... sunglasses after dark" type.

To be brutally honest, Mark, I can't see many journalists, were a new release put out, giving a flying f**k about the Sisters, new material or not, anymore.

@Dark - I can't say that they wouldn't be interested, I would expect the label matters. As for himself, some creeps would surface just to try their luck with some half-baked and whitless words about the past. But primarily they're in the business of selling copy and there's not much better than a legendary figures return, for shifting their pulp

What it takes to make a record is working with people, who have no interest except the cheques. Likewise, Andrew would have little time for such folk...

Finally - yes Von could make a very good studio release, some of the kinks in his voice can be tweaked even BUT he would be unable to match that sound live, which I imagine would not please him greatly

He's a human being he did his best work and we can all enjoy the ride, occassional celebrations with some singing and dancing, reliving any era we choose in the comfort of our homes

His material is timeless, he isn't

RobF wrote:
We don't queue outside gigs from three in the afternoon drinking cheap vodka and sitting on kit-bags anymore, we don't pay £10 for cassette bootlegs at record-fairs anymore.

I certainly still do and I am even more certainly not the only one!

Ozpat wrote:

RobF wrote: We don't queue outside gigs from three in the afternoon drinking cheap vodka and sitting on kit-bags anymore, we don't pay £10 for cassette bootlegs at record-fairs anymore.

I certainly still do and I am even more certainly not the only one!

You've got plenty of company...although maybe not so much with the cheap vodka these days

Rob, while I truly and fully appreciate how you feel about how the glorious past of "Sisters culture" - I have similar memories and like to revel in them sometimes - I'm also a little overwhelmed by your outright conservatism. One of the main attractions of the Sisters for me was that they were a modern band.

They didn't play by the same rules as other bands, they followed their own game plan, they set their own standards, they were secretive, unpredictable and seemed like a band from the future, in a sense.

I don't see any reasons at all why they shouldn't take advantage of the current situation, which in most respects free artists from the destructive dependency and dictates of a clueless record "industry". For me, the Sisters should be the last band on earth to be backward-looking and living off past merits. It seems horribly... wrong. And unnecessarily so.

RobF wrote:
It's not just the state of the industry which repels him, but the culture of 21st century music consumption.

The band can set their own rules here, with a little creativity.

RobF wrote: Sisters product comes on shiny black plastic, in a big cover. From a shop. Preferably a shop run by a surly man in a Sonic Youth shirt.

Or on flexis. Or on cassettes from grubby market stalls in Hyper-Hyper (remember?). Or on CD:s. Or on files. Or in 12" box sets. Or on colored vinyl. Anything goes, as long as it is cool and it has the Sisters written all over it. Even if I agree that black vinyl is hard to beat.

RobF wrote: Whatever we do nowt's going to live up to the excitement of even the early 90s releases. Whatever you think of Under The Gun, that morning in 93 was the last time we got to hang about outside a record shop before it opened before buying alll the formats in one go and gripping them with excitement on the bus home.

While I think you're being overly negative and conservative, I also have intense memories of that period of time -but perhaps that's also to do with the fact that that time was the formative period of my life. If you stick to that line of thinking, you end up like to those sad old gits who reminisce about the Sixties and the Beatles, and how nothing beats black and white TV.

RobF wrote: We don't queue outside gigs from three in the afternoon drinking cheap vodka and sitting on kit-bags anymore,

Well, that's a f***ing relief, isn't it?

RobF wrote: we don't pay £10 for cassette bootlegs at record-fairs anymore.

No, but we can download cool torrent files and get nice DVD:s in the mail. Beats hissy cassettes any time, in my book (and I used to be one of the guys who were both buying and making the bootleg cassettes, so I should know).

RobF wrote: The Sisters don't release albums anymore.

Well, I think they should. I'd pick them up straight away, and so would you I guess. Especially if you could choose between having the album on CD with nice packaging, as a lossless file, or as an extra-heavy (glossy black!) vinyl album with a gatefold sleeve, and pay for it directly to band via their web site. And why not buy the new single as well, with neither the A or the B side on the album. And while you're at it, buy the new DVD, too. And the lyrics book. And some tickets for the next show.

I know I'd be really looking forward to riding the bus home after picking that package up at the post office, wouldn't you?

And we'd still be in 2009. And the band would be making money. And the record companies could still go f**k themselves. And if the music press chose no to write about the band, then, well tough. Who'd care.

RobF wrote: The whole culture of The Sisters is dead, and I think Eldritch quite likes it that way.

Things don't have to stay exactly the same forever to be any good. Things (and cultures) can take new turns and be exciting, creative and stimulating in new, sometimes unforseen ways.

RobF wrote: He can survive on gigging (The only bit of the industry making any money at the moment anyway).

For most artists for the past two decades, that has been the case anyway (just like it used to be the case before the record companies had their short lived monopoly on music distribution and could push record prices up to artificially high levels. Things are now back to normal, if you take a longer perspective.

RobF wrote: It's not like we're missing out as we get to hear all the songs of friggin' youtube within two hours anyway,

Well, compare getting low quality snippets on YouTube, with very little of the Sisters magick involved, to the scenario I portrayed above, and I think you'll see what I'm after.

I just think that the band should take more advantage of a situation where the can have more creative (and possibly financial) freedom than ever before.

RobF wrote: and any new product now would be a horrible dissapointment.

Come now. Do you seriously mean that you would rate your old copy of "Under The Gun" higher than the vinyl edition of the new Sisters album/single, with songs the calibre of "Crash And Burn", "Summer" et al?
Now you're just crying in your beer. Watch those waist- and hairlines, buddy. [/u]

mh wrote:Rumour has it that it wasn't Adam all along (although he does deserve a fair blame for grinding the band into some pretty grim turgidity).

I know that Von seems very displeased with Adam, but I have no idea why as I wasn't following the Sisters at that time. Please fill me in.

mh wrote: Pity really, shiny sparkly studio versions of the new stuff would be a lovely thing to have indeed.

Yes it would. And they certainly don't need a record company to get that done, either.

darkparticle wrote: What it takes to make a record is working with people, who have no interest except the cheques.

Not true. What it takes to make a record is the following:

1. A budget. Not bucketloads of cash, but some.

2. Good material.

3. Someone to play it.

4. A studio.

5. A producer.

6. A graphic designer.

7. A pressing plant/duplicating service.

8. Some fans to sell it to.

9. A way tell them that the record exists.

10. A sales channel (a website, Amazon, iTunes etc)

11. Distribution (sign a non-exclusive deal with a good distributor and sell as many copies as you can yourself).


There is absolutely no need to involve a record company in order to do any of the above, unless you really feel the need to involve people for no reason, and you hate to keep your hard-earned money yourself. Doesn't like Von to me.

<yawn>

Hom_Corleone wrote:<yawn>

Aye....coat!

mh wrote: It's tempting to see some conspiracy theory, ain't it? But I still reckon it's just Von being a lazy (and contrary) old bugger, and the more people kick up over it the less inclined he'll be to do anything.

Sadly thats the way I see it too.

Hom_Corleone wrote:<yawn>

If you find a discussion boring and have nothing to add to it, you surely must have other options than stating your dissent in such a boring manner?

Yggdrasil wrote:

Hom_Corleone wrote:<yawn>

If you find a discussion boring and have nothing to add to it, you surely must have other options than stating your dissent in such a boring manner?

I'll post what I want, where I want - but thanks for your comments.
My point wasn't aimed at you particularly - it's just we've been over this tiresome subject over and over again.