Kenny Giles Walks on Water

Have you established a good reputation at HL and got some Sisters stuff to sell or trade with the community? Or are you searching for that elusive ultra rare live bootleg from 1988? Ever had a bad experience with a trader on Ebay? Let us all know here. Outdated threads will be purged over time.

Warning: Newcomers posting here first will be treated like spammers. At least have the courtesy to say hello in General Chat first...
allfear
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Just got this little beauty, real good stuff, several on here have it for trade,, get it if you can ;-)

Matt


Kenny Giles Walks on Water

1 Untitled demo (Body Electric diff lyrics) 5.00
2 Good things (1st Demo) 3.53
3 1969 (Basement Demo) 2.32
4 Alice (psychedelic Intro. Demo) 3.05
5 Adrenochrome (CNT Demo) 2.55
6 Body Electric (CNT Demo) 4.24
7 Anaconda (Demo) 3.06
8 Phantom (Unfaded edit) 2.42
9 Good Things (Unreleased Basement Demo) 3.37
10 Adrenochrome (CNT Reverb Demo) 2.56
11 Body electric (instrumental) 4.32
12 Adrenochrome (instrumental) 2.55
13 Good Things (Leeds 16.02.81) 5.31
14 Floorshow (Demo) 3.19
15 Lights (Demo) 5.20
16 Teachers/Adrenochrome (Demo) 6.57

5,6,10,11,12 - Recorded at Kenny Giles studio Bridlington
2,3,4,7 - Recorded 1982
14,15,16 - Recorded early 1981
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hallucienate
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It is rather good. Listened to my copy a few days ago.

Under the Knife and WEA '85 mixes don't quite match up to it.
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Dan
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It's just a shame whoever transferred the tapes to cd made such an arse of it, but at least we can hear them at last. I've remastered it, getting rid of a lot of the clicks and a lot of the hiss.
hallucienate wrote: Under the Knife and WEA '85 mixes don't quite match up to it.
Yeh, Under The Knife is pretty poor when compared to the other 2 cd's. It looks like the original sellers attempt to milk it on ebay with a 3rd cd to increase their profits.
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hallucienate
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just out of interest what software do you use to clean up songs, and what settings ?

could be a good way to use some of my PC's idle time...
allfear
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mind you im suspicios, some sound like real audio streams, and are some tracks true demos or fakes?

Im certianaly suspicios of about 6 or 7 of the tracks

Matt
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Dan
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hallucienate wrote:just out of interest what software do you use to clean up songs, and what settings ?

could be a good way to use some of my PC's idle time...
Soundforge, with some graphic equaliser settings I worked out myself.
Also I recently discovered it's paragraphic equaliser has a setting called "fletcher munson curve" that's bloody good for getting rid of hiss.

Theres also a program called groove mechanic I use to get rid of hiss (a friend recorded That Guitarist at York Barfly on minidisc but his levels were wrong and there was lots of hiss. I had to process it twice as the first time it didn't get rid of much hiss. It also seems to be able to get rid of hiss without making the recording sound "dull", but only works on a certain type of hiss.)

Anyway, back to soundforge, theres lots of settings but I find my custom equaliser settings and fletcher munson curve are the only ones I use. Sometimes I use both equaliser and fletcher munson curve, and sometimes one or the other. Sometimes processing can make the sound a bit dull sounding, as you sometimes lose the high end, like the cymbals, but in the end it's a trade-off between whether you want a sh!tty recording with a huge amount of hiss or do you want it a little dull but otherwise sounding good. Sometimes it's best just to remove some of the hiss, but not all.

Getting rid of clicks is another thing entirely. Groove mechanic has a setting to "de-click" a recording. This is only good for recordings from old vinyl where theres lots of clicks, although it's never 100% successful. I've only used it once, and that was for a tape of a Sisters gig that was from vinyl. One side of the record was good sound, the other side was quiet and scratched to f*ck. After processing I can't tell which side was the scratched one.

To get rid of the occasional click you hear in recordings requires you to zoom in on that part of the waveform, and you can either simply cut out that part (as it's so short you won't notice), or you can re-draw the waveform. There's a preview function so you can preview the edit before you do it so make sure it sounds ok. When editing the waveform you've gotta make sure the sound wave stays in a sine wave, so if the wave is coming down from a peak, after the edit you have to make sure the wave carries on in the same direction, or if you cut it so it moves down and then suddenly moves up sharply again you'll get a click which is what you wanna avoid.

It's also got many other nice features, such as crossfade, so where you turned the tape over during a gig you just overlap the 2 ends slightly for a seamless edit.
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I'll have to remember those. I generally use Goldwave which is pretty much the same thing, but I have noticed Soundforge has a lot of decent presets in it for messing about with sound. When I get my copy of XP I'll start experimenting with it
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hallucienate
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@Dan

:notworthy:

I'll have to get myself a copy of soundforge and take a look.
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hallucienate wrote:@Dan

:notworthy:

I'll have to get myself a copy of soundforge and take a look.
i know where you can get a copy ;)

"/software/SoundForge 4.5c"

:innocent:
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CellThree
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What sort of mic do you need to record to minidisc? I have a recorder, always wanted to use it to record gigs, but never really got round to finding out the best way of doing it.

Do you use the mic port or the Line In port? What is the best volume setting etc etc! :)
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hallucienate
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Quiff Boy wrote:
hallucienate wrote:@Dan

:notworthy:

I'll have to get myself a copy of soundforge and take a look.
i know where you can get a copy ;)

"/software/SoundForge 4.5c"

:innocent:
:innocent: :notworthy: :notworthy:
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Dan
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CellThree wrote:What sort of mic do you need to record to minidisc?
Good question! Most people never ask that question and assume that simply because it's minidisc, the recording will be great, then they go and use the sh*ttest mic imaginable, and the recording is no better than the ones I make on my crappy walkman with built-in mic I've been using since 1985. For a couple of years I had another walkman with an external mic, and that was really good. It was a stereo mic in a T shape. I did some good gigs with it but then it stopped working and a new one would have cost me more than the walkman & mic together cost me, so I didn't bother.

To test a mic if you've never used it before, you can try playing some music at home really loud, set it recording, and see what you get. If you have automatic recording level use it, and when recording a gig it's not a good idea to be too close to the speaker stack or you'll get a load of distortion. If you don't have automatic recording level, make sure it's not peaking too high, as with minidisc if it peaks too high you get annoying clicks on the recording which are damn near impossible to remove. Don't be afraid to have the levels a bit too quiet rather than a bit too loud, as if it's got clicks the recordings f*cked, but if it's too quiet it can always be boosted afterwards.
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Dan
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Quiff Boy wrote: i know where you can get a copy ;)

"/software/SoundForge 4.5c"

:innocent:
version 6.0 is better

"/uploads..."

:innocent:
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hallucienate
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damn, theres a whole lot of whistling going on here today :innocent:


:notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
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Brad
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I have my doubts about the validity of some of the tracks (eg. the alleged CNT demos and reverb demo). Sounds like originals EQ'd to me.
-Brad
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Brad
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I have my doubts about the validity of some of the tracks (eg. the alleged CNT demos and reverb demo). Sounds like originals EQ'd to me.
-Brad
allfear
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yeah brad i reckon there aro only actually about 4 or 5 tracks that are genuine, though the floorshow ep tracks sound better than the vinyl

MAtt
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allfear wrote:yeah brad i reckon there aro only actually about 4 or 5 tracks that are genuine, though the floorshow ep tracks sound better than the vinyl

MAtt

Matt do you agree that one of the B.E's is the version that J.Peel played

"this is an old one by the Sisters of Mercy. it's not called electric body......" :?:
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Dan
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paint it black wrote: Matt do you agree that one of the B.E's is the version that J.Peel played

"this is an old one by the Sisters of Mercy. it's not called electric body......" :?:
Yes, it is, definitely. I compared them. The Peel version fades out about 30 sec earlier though. It's easily distinguishable from the single version by the small feedback sounds heard in parts.

Why Peel was playing an unreleased 1982 demo in January'84 remains a mystery. Maybe he asked them so send him the Body Electric single to play and they had none available so sent that instead?

Also, I disagree that any of the tracks are fakes.
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Dan wrote:
paint it black wrote: Matt do you agree that one of the B.E's is the version that J.Peel played

"this is an old one by the Sisters of Mercy. it's not called electric body......" :?:
Also, I disagree that any of the tracks are fakes.

i'm inclined to agree with you Dan . Given that 7 + 1 (the BE track) of the tracks are already known demo's it doesn't really seem to make sense to fudge the rest of the stuff
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Dan
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Yeh, I've had tracks 3,4 & 9 for about 6 years (correct running order on the tape is 1969/Good Things/Alice). If you listen closely to the ending of Alice (more evident on my version) you can hear the ending is slightly incomplete. Someone has recorded over the end of the song, giving the quick fade effect you get when recording over the end of something with most cassette decks.



Talking of fake demos, there are quite a few floating around. Ones that come to mind are a cassette I have (from an album) called "Afterhours". One side being the Manchester 13.10.84 encores (in slightly better sound[but still crap] than the cassette I have of the same gig), and on the other side 3 "demos" listed as Train (different mix), A Rock And A Hard Place (different mix) and Afterhours.

Another one is a cassette called "Amsterdam Demos" containing various tracks bracketed with things like "long version" "short version" "fast version" "slow version". Bunch of arse, they're no longer,faster, etc.. than the officially released versions.

Somewhere (can't remember if it's on the aforementioned 2 tapes) I have an "Afterhours (extended version)" and there's a gap in the middle of the song where the person lifts the needle off the vinyl back to earlier in the song to "extend" it!
allfear
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as far as i cat tell on a quick listen 1969 is peel session also

as for afterhours, as far as i am concerned ALL versions on bootlegs are mearley the official one either extended or nor (inc the gary marx victims tape) inelss anyone knows different.

matt
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Afterhours

Dan you might grade?

7.45, from a tape i was given in '86

7.23
6.24

from a Cd i was given very recently. still not convinced the latter is Von singing

i have more, but i haven't found them yet
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Dan
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I must've heard about six supposedly different versions of Afterhours, but in my opinion they all sounded like they were the officially released version. People used to like to mess with things with an equaliser and then pretend they were demos.
sathvyre
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is there any chance to get that compilation as lossless files in its original form ??? sorry, i am not into torrents and stuff...aould be very grateful to get it through a direct link or wetransfer upload. i shared the live at "eissporthalle" halle/saale (germany) december 17, 1993 for free. thank you very much !!!
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