Heartland

...not to mention the next Hawkwind tour...

Over 12.5 tonnes of cannabis resin - enough to produce 36 million spliffs - were discovered.

The BBC wrote:Meanwhile the 12.5 tonnes of cannabis resin seized in Southampton has now been incinerated - the criminals' profits have literally gone up in smoke.

Wish I'd been stood round that particular bonfire

F*cking insane drug laws.

How the hell do they get £36million for 12.5 tonnes anyway? £2880 per kilo is way over-valuing surely? I'd guess you'd pay no more than about a grand for a key; even less if you're buying and selling by the tonne.

"woo-hoo let's do the war on drugs"

Last time I was lucky enough to be able to buy cannabis (before I started working for a company with random drug tests in a country that values bud above resin for reasons which I still don't understand) I was paying about 15 quid for an eighth or a grand for a pound (dealers were pre-metric in those days ).
I did the maths - 12.5 tonnes is the equivalent of 3,520,000 eighth deals (does anyone sell 'teenths anymore?). Their spliff/ounce calculation is pretty close, assuming you can get around 10 spliffs from an eighth (2-skin, rocky, shaved with a razorblade rather than burned, about 1/3 gear/baccy ratio).
If you were to buy 12.5 tonnes by the eighth then their calculations aren't far off, but as The Right Honourable Meerkat pointed out, you're going to get a discount for bulk. The gear had a street value of 36 million quid but the gang would have paid considerably less than that.

but it's natural that police says that this 12.5 tonnes is worth over 36 millions, you can't expect that the we'll write costs of buying but only want they could make from it.

Bartek wrote:but it's natural that police says that this 12.5 tonnes is worth over 36 millions, you can't expect that the we'll write costs of buying but only want they could make from it.

It's 36 million that doesn't go to the Inland Revenue

Edith: blah,blah,blah

Big Si wrote:

Bartek wrote:but it's natural that police says that this 12.5 tonnes is worth over 36 millions, you can't expect that the we'll write costs of buying but only want they could make from it.

It's 36 million that doesn't go to the Inland Revenue

Imagine if it were legalised and they could tax it - it would put paid to an enormous amount of crime and boost the budget at one fell swoop.

I am so glad Seattle's former police chief is now the national Drug Czar. I didn't care much for him running a police department - he was way overly protective of his own and resistant to outside oversight - but he really wants to end the War On Drugs. He's not a legalisation fan, but he is for decriminalisation. It's a small step, but it's in the right direction...

imagine how much your NHS payment will rise.

I think you'll find you "did the math" and not "maths" Mr. Bastard

James Blast wrote:I think you'll find you "did the math" and not "maths" Mr. Bastard

Mathematics, Mr. Blast - and I'll thank you to leave your American "English" outside and tied to the lamp-post where it belongs. Last time you brought it inside it peed on the carpet, shat in the toaster, humped everything in sight and got us embroiled in illegal and ill-fated foreign policy gambits in places we should know to stay away from, and we don't want a repeat of that, now do we, hmm?

EvilBastard wrote:Mathematics, Mr. Blast - and I'll thank you to leave your American "English" outside and tied to the lamp-post where it belongs. Last time you brought it inside it peed on the carpet, shat in the toaster, humped everything in sight and got us embroiled in illegal and ill-fated foreign policy gambits in places we should know to stay away from, and we don't want a repeat of that, now do we, hmm?

Just be thankful the washing machine was unharmed!

that's because I'm allergic to aluminium

Bartek wrote:imagine how much your NHS payment will rise.

How? Decriminalisation or legalisation of all currently illegal drugs would mean:
* Known levels of purity -- therefore fewer ODs
* Reduction of needle-sharing -- therefore less HIV, Hepatitis, other blood-borne diseases
* Addicts more likely to present for addiction treatment without the stigma of illegal drug-use.
And that's just on the healthcare side
* Law enforcement: police can go after real criminals rather than potheads
* Crime prevention: legal drugs would be cheaper, reducing property crimes committed for drug money.
* Prisons: A very large proportion of prisoners are in for drug-related crimes. It costs a lot to keep them there and does very little good for their drug problems.

I could go on...

markfiend wrote:

Bartek wrote:imagine how much your NHS payment will rise.

How? Decriminalisation or legalisation of all currently illegal drugs would mean:
* Known levels of purity -- therefore fewer ODs
* Reduction of needle-sharing -- therefore less HIV, Hepatitis, other blood-borne diseases
* Addicts more likely to present for addiction treatment without the stigma of illegal drug-use.
And that's just on the healthcare side
* Law enforcement: police can go after real criminals rather than potheads
* Crime prevention: legal drugs would be cheaper, reducing property crimes committed for drug money.
* Prisons: A very large proportion of prisoners are in for drug-related crimes. It costs a lot to keep them there and does very little good for their drug problems.

I could go on...

Well said mark.

What's really irritating is when politicians commission a scientific report on drugs and their affects and effects, then completely ignore the results because they blow gaping holes in the propaganda and policy stance, then they have the gall to describe said report as "unhelpful" or "inaccurate".

markfiend wrote:How? Decriminalisation or legalisation of all currently illegal drugs would mean...

Not to mention lots and lots of money flowing into the Treasury's coffers which would cover any increased pressure on the NHS, and perhaps pay for research into better methods of treating addiction (like apomorphine).
The problem with legalising or decriminalising these drugs is the wider effect - given that opium poppies are cultivated in Afghanistan (where a 2-pronged war on Drugs n'Terror is being waged), coca is grown in Colombia (where the cartels are busy killing government officials that stand in the way of making money), and the US is ploughing heaps-o-cash into stomping on drugs operations in both countries, for the UK to legalise would put them in direct confrontation with an important ally and lay them open to accusations of not wanting to foster development in the parts of the world that grow the stuff. Unless the governments of Afghanistan and Colombia could be brought into the fold then legalisation is unworkable, at least in the short term. In the longer term, with climate change working its magic, the weather in the UK could alter sufficiently to allow the cultivation of both opium poppies and coca bushes, and the unemployed could be put to work growing the stuff. Given the problems we've had recently with mad cow, foot n'mouth, avian flu and flyingpiggies, a large amount of agricultural land could be repurposed to allow for this (not to mention widespread hemp cultivation, but don't get me started on that).
Imagine it - huge swathes of the Lake District surrounded by razor wire and high-intensity floodlights watching over hundreds of acres of opium poppies, guarded by private armies of faceless goons (supplied by private enterprise of course, Blackwater or Executive Outcomes perhaps) with no accountability and an unfortunate habit of blowing away ramblers who stray too close to the fence. A brave new world, perhaps, but I for one welcome our new opiate overlords.

EvilBastard wrote:given that opium poppies are cultivated in Afghanistan (where a 2-pronged war on Drugs n'Terror is being waged), coca is grown in Colombia (where the cartels are busy killing government officials that stand in the way of making money)

Simple. Fair Trade Class A drugs

markfiend wrote:

EvilBastard wrote:given that opium poppies are cultivated in Afghanistan (where a 2-pronged war on Drugs n'Terror is being waged), coca is grown in Colombia (where the cartels are busy killing government officials that stand in the way of making money)

Simple. Fair Trade Class A drugs

It would be a sure-fire winner for Oxfam...

EvilBastard wrote:The problem with legalising or decriminalising these drugs is the wider effect - given that opium poppies are cultivated in Afghanistan (where a 2-pronged war on Drugs n'Terror is being waged), coca is grown in Colombia (where the cartels are busy killing government officials that stand in the way of making money), and the US is ploughing heaps-o-cash into stomping on drugs operations in both countries, for the UK to legalise would put them in direct confrontation with an important ally and lay them open to accusations of not wanting to foster development in the parts of the world that grow the stuff.

Yup. That's why the US has to figure this out first, and why I'm now a Kerlikowske supporter.

And also wrote:Unless the governments of Afghanistan and Colombia could be brought into the fold then legalisation is unworkable, at least in the short term.

It does mean battling a firmly entrenched culture of governmental corruption, so it won't happen overnight. But if we can keep Democrats in office long enough, there are demonstrable benefits, for a much larger demographic, in practicing legitimate trade as opposed to dealing with criminals.

I for one promise to do my best to help it happen.

Apparently the largest legal grower of coca in the world is the company which provides Coca-Cola with its de-cocaine-ised coca leaves. Go figure.

i should have known that someone will answer like that.
now the translation: first, it was sarcastic joke - 'cos we all know what current country works - so~called protecting - telling us what we have to do, treat us like a blind deaf and dumb, blind kid who always " needs
a hand in their decision".
second, i doubt that when drugs will be legal that can be cheaper than now ( i don't know the price in UK or anywhere in the world, accept price of: weed, hash, and speed in Poland, but even that in not sure).
mind that: tax load of tax.
yeah, in the other hand dealers will not have to be afraid of confiscation so transport and so on will be cheaper but still tax, permissions and other administrative costs...
it all comes from logic if they want kill themselves - do not try to tell them that they're doing something wrong. and it also about hypocrisy of our beloved governments: you want to destroy your life by alcohol ? no problem, cheers.

7anthea7 wrote:

EvilBastard wrote:The problem with legalising or decriminalising these drugs is the wider effect - given that opium poppies are cultivated in Afghanistan (where a 2-pronged war on Drugs n'Terror is being waged), coca is grown in Colombia (where the cartels are busy killing government officials that stand in the way of making money), and the US is ploughing heaps-o-cash into stomping on drugs operations in both countries, for the UK to legalise would put them in direct confrontation with an important ally and lay them open to accusations of not wanting to foster development in the parts of the world that grow the stuff.

Yup. That's why the US has to figure this out first, and why I'm now a Kerlikowske supporter.

Not just the US, the whole world has to figure this out.
Let's say the US legalises heroin - if growing the stuff is illegal in Afghanistan then there's going to be widespread criminal behaviour there because people know that they can make money with it. We're looking at a new series of opium wars.

7anthea7 wrote:

EvilBastard wrote:Unless the governments of Afghanistan and Colombia could be brought into the fold then legalisation is unworkable, at least in the short term.

It does mean battling a firmly entrenched culture of governmental corruption, so it won't happen overnight. But if we can keep Democrats in office long enough, there are demonstrable benefits, for a much larger demographic, in practicing legitimate trade as opposed to dealing with criminals.

I for one promise to do my best to help it happen.

Alas, the Democrats are not immune from government corruption, nor are they that interested in free trade if recent activity is anything to go by. The corruption in Afghanistan and Colmbia isn't the problem - the problem is that unless the governments make the cultivation and export of the raw material or the finished product legal then they're still going to have a huge problem with associated crime. Legal cocaine in the US doesn't make the Cali cartel any less illegal in Bogota. The only thing that is going to work is if growers and consumers legalise it (which is unlikely to happen), or if the production and consumption happens in the same country (can we change the lyrics of America the Beautiful...

O beautiful, for spaced-out guys
For verdant waves of pot
For purple-headed poppy-fields
We'll smoke the fucking lot
America! America! A land of nose-candy
We'll spike the veins and smoke the crack, from sea to shining sea.)

Bartek wrote:i should have known that someone will answer like that.
now the translation: first, it was sarcastic joke - 'cos we all know what current country works - so~called protecting - telling us what we have to do, treat us like a blind deaf and dumb, blind kid who always " needs
a hand in their decision".
second, i doubt that when drugs will be legal that can be cheaper than now ( i don't know the price in UK or anywhere in the world, accept price of: weed, hash, and speed in Poland, but even that in not sure).
mind that: tax load of tax.
yeah, in the other hand dealers will not have to be afraid of confiscation so transport and so on will be cheaper but still tax, permissions and other administrative costs...
it all comes from logic if they want kill themselves - do not try to tell them that they're doing something wrong. and it also about hypocrisy of our beloved governments: you want to destroy your life by alcohol ? no problem, cheers.

I don't think we're in any serious disagreement my friend I did think you were being sarcastic, but hey, it gave me a chance to rant. And we all know how much I like the sound of my own voice

it was a deal: i made you do what you like to do and you give me a chance to do what i like to do