Heartland

Hello,
i was thinking about to build my personal dok
i'll use a PowerBook G4 running Logic or Cubase
but, and the other parts? i mean, the hardwares around it and the VSTs?

So guys, how i start my project?

Thx!

Thankyou for asking. You'll get some very different answers from different people on here (for example, Izzy and I have different ideas on the the "best" way of making loads of big loud drum machine noises).

If you're using Logic or Cubase as the core of your system, yet you still want to create a Doktor type set up with lots of chunky hardware, here's what I suggest:

The Easy Way:

1. Create and sequence your patterns on your laptop.

2. Use appropriate set of drum sounds, your digital audio workstation will have hundreds on hundreds.

3. Apply tons of compression to your snare, kick and toms. EQ to taste. Apply tons of reverb, especially to the snare.

4. Plug your laptop onto sound desk and go.

The Fun Way:

1. Create your patterns on a midi compatible drum machine (I use a Roland 707).

2. Transfer your patterns to a sequencer via some sort of midi record (I have an Alesis MMT8, although Ed Rhombus uses a much more powerful and cool looking Yamaha RMX1 Groovebox.

3. Sequence your patterns into songs

4. Plug your sequencer into a sampler, such as an Akai S2000 (that very same sampler that goes into the Dok).

5. Collect a set of drum samples you like. Buy them from a dodgy bloke on ebay, download them, borrow a mates drum machine and sample them, hold a mic up the intro of a Sisters record - whatever.

5a. Apply effects to your drums before loading them onto the sampler (either on your laptop or via an effects unit). See Section 1.3 about appropriate effects. This way they'll come out of your sampler fully treated.

5b. Sample your drums dry as a bone and move onto section 6a.

6. Output your drums from the sampler, with anyluck you should have a separate audio channel for each drum, making live mixing a tad more versatile. If you're a lazy gig you'll have sampled them with effects so you can move straight to section 7. If you sampled them dry, as it section 5b move down to 6a.

6a. Take your separately outputted drums and run them through a rack of hardware effects unit. You'll probably need separate reverbs and things for each drum sound - but that's all part of the fun.

7. Plug into sound desk and go.

What the Dok Does:

Basically a combination of the two. Eldo has a custom made laptop on which he can record his midi tracks and plug them straight into his samplers. Thus bypassing the need for messing around with sequencers, but still getting all the advantage of having hardware samplers between the band and the sound board.

The best way;



...But then I'm old-fashioned, that way.

Maisey wrote:5. Collect a set of drum samples you like. Buy them from a dodgy bloke on ebay, download them, borrow a mates drum machine and sample them, hold a mic up the intro of a Sisters record - whatever.

"Hold a mic up the intro of a Sisters record" -- you been taking tips from Ramone?

Norman Hunter wrote:The best way;



...But then I'm old-fashioned, that way.

You need someone with a couple of sticks as well.

markfiend wrote:

Maisey wrote:5. Collect a set of drum samples you like. Buy them from a dodgy bloke on ebay, download them, borrow a mates drum machine and sample them, hold a mic up the intro of a Sisters record - whatever.

"Hold a mic up the intro of a Sisters record" -- you been taking tips from Ramone?

Yes

Maisey wrote:Thankyou for asking. You'll get some very different answers from different people on here (for example, Izzy and I have different ideas on the the "best" way of making loads of big loud drum machine noises).

If you're using Logic or Cubase as the core of your system, yet you still want to create a Doktor type set up with lots of chunky hardware, here's what I suggest:

The Easy Way:

1. Create and sequence your patterns on your laptop.

2. Use appropriate set of drum sounds, your digital audio workstation will have hundreds on hundreds.

3. Apply tons of compression to your snare, kick and toms. EQ to taste. Apply tons of reverb, especially to the snare.

4. Plug your laptop onto sound desk and go.

The Fun Way:

1. Create your patterns on a midi compatible drum machine (I use a Roland 707).

2. Transfer your patterns to a sequencer via some sort of midi record (I have an Alesis MMT8, although Ed Rhombus uses a much more powerful and cool looking Yamaha RMX1 Groovebox.

3. Sequence your patterns into songs

4. Plug your sequencer into a sampler, such as an Akai S2000 (that very same sampler that goes into the Dok).

5. Collect a set of drum samples you like. Buy them from a dodgy bloke on ebay, download them, borrow a mates drum machine and sample them, hold a mic up the intro of a Sisters record - whatever.

5a. Apply effects to your drums before loading them onto the sampler (either on your laptop or via an effects unit). See Section 1.3 about appropriate effects. This way they'll come out of your sampler fully treated.

5b. Sample your drums dry as a bone and move onto section 6a.

6. Output your drums from the sampler, with anyluck you should have a separate audio channel for each drum, making live mixing a tad more versatile. If you're a lazy gig you'll have sampled them with effects so you can move straight to section 7. If you sampled them dry, as it section 5b move down to 6a.

6a. Take your separately outputted drums and run them through a rack of hardware effects unit. You'll probably need separate reverbs and things for each drum sound - but that's all part of the fun.

7. Plug into sound desk and go.

What the Dok Does:

Basically a combination of the two. Eldo has a custom made laptop on which he can record his midi tracks and plug them straight into his samplers. Thus bypassing the need for messing around with sequencers, but still getting all the advantage of having hardware samplers between the band and the sound board.

Thx
I've made some bass and drums sample with the easy way a year a go.
i'm rly interessed to made a hardware doc (with a powerbook g4 lol).

Do you have any text 'DIY - Doktor Avalanche for Dummies' ?

Yes

Powerbook G4 ---->>>>MIDI---->>>> Akai S2000 Sampler -----> Effects or whatever------>>>>Speakers

Maisey wrote:Yes

Powerbook G4 ---->>>>MIDI---->>>> Akai S2000 Sampler -----> Effects or whatever------>>>>Speakers

MIDI = an FIREWIRE/USB to Midi cable?

Yeah, I imagine you could do just that. You can certainly get USB>>Midi cables.

*Trying to buy a AKAI S2000 on the Brazillian ebay*
pretty expensive i must to say, but i NEED this
Hey Maisey, when i buy this, can you please, gimme a little help with it?

Yes of course!

Any S series Akai will do. S2000, S2500, S3000 etc etc

Don't forget that you'll need to feed the sampler with samples first.

AFAIK there was an AKAI with an built in CD-Rom drive (I think it was from the 3xxx series) - that's very probably very handy for loading the samples compared to floppy discs or external SCSI drives. I'd also go for a unit with an internal HDD - once loaded with samples it's probably faster "ready" compared to optical or zip drive performance.

I record my samples through the analogue input and then use a floppy disc for saving them.

I use an S3000

Jeremiah wrote:You need someone with a couple of sticks as well.

Man, sure sounds a lot easier - and fun - than Maisey's detailed instructions

On the other hand...

[img]http://yami_no_miko.tripod.com/nicehair68.jpg[/img]

[img]http://yami_no_miko.tripod.com/nicehair67.jpg[/img]

Why bother with all the hardware when you use a Powerbook with Cubase installed?

Cubase in itself is a very capable DAW and there are enough VST(i)s arouns capable of doing the stuff the Sisters do.

They are not really soo modern with their sound, so find yourself a kit like Battery, Drumkit From Hell or another

Check the site KVR Audio for (free and commercial) VSTs and effects.

[url]http://www.kvraudio.com/get.php[.url]


Success!

IZ.

Is it just me or is Iz's post there just showing up as empty?

it's empty. silence is louder or something.

I assumed that, considering the subject, his post had such a massive mass of information that it became a sort of literary gravitational anomaly, thus imploding under it's own weight and forming a kind of textual supernova.

In short gentlemen, what we are seeing is not, in fact, an empty post; but a post far too vast and possessing of far too much knowledge for us to actually comprehend.

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:Why bother with all the hardware when you use a Powerbook with Cubase installed?

Cubase in itself is a very capable DAW and there are enough VST(i)s arouns capable of doing the stuff the Sisters do.

They are not really soo modern with their sound, so find yourself a kit like Battery, Drumkit From Hell or another

Check the site KVR Audio for (free and commercial) VSTs and effects.

http://www.kvraudio.com/get.php


Success!

IZ.

He mistyped /url as .url -- seems to have killed the whole post!

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:Why bother with all the hardware when you use a Powerbook with Cubase installed?
.

Fun

Maisey wrote:

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:Why bother with all the hardware when you use a Powerbook with Cubase installed?
.

Fun

That's exactly the point

markfiend wrote:

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:Why bother with all the hardware when you use a Powerbook with Cubase installed?

Cubase in itself is a very capable DAW and there are enough VST(i)s arouns capable of doing the stuff the Sisters do.

They are not really soo modern with their sound, so find yourself a kit like Battery, Drumkit From Hell or another

Check the site KVR Audio for (free and commercial) VSTs and effects.

http://www.kvraudio.com/get.php


Success!

IZ.

He mistyped /url as .url -- seems to have killed the whole post!

Grooveh! I b0rked HL!

Bah, humbug. It is 'fun' when you use the hardware sequencer and a real 808 and an Oberheim and try to find all the cably bits in obscure dark electric supplies stores with constantly dusty and stained windows.

Using a state-of-the-arse MAC with a modern DAW, trying to connect an AKAI is like using this on a daily basis:



IZ.