The whole 'ironic' thing

[White Like Jesus]

I keep reading about AE being above certain things...like the VT album - the guitars were IRONIC. I'm taking the p*ss out of them. Does that mean he's not putting them in to sound good to his ears? And if they do sound good to his ears, how are you ironically 'above' guitar riffing by putting a bunch of programmed guitar riffs you personally find to be cheesy and have to make fun of? Plus, we're not goth. There are several things about the music and image that goths identify with, and we'll play shows and festivals with goth bands on them, but we're above all that. C'mon, man. There's nothing wrong with heavy guitars or goth music - and there are far heavier guitars and far gothier bands out there than the Sisters. With the caliber of lyrics you're writing, this is not novelty music.

[Sita]

When you define ironic only as "meaning the opposite of what I say" it's of course a bit narrow. You could watch and read some interviews from Floodland and Vision Thing times. Eldritch explains himself, and they're fun, anyway.

[Machine Regime]

Eldritch has always been a bit of a smart arse.

[Machine Regime]

In reference to the goth thing, since records stores are in such decline I imagine that the world is much less enthralled by notions of genres and 'scenes' than it used to be.

I think musical stlyes cross-pollinate so much these days that tribalism has started to lose its appeal - which is a good thing,

It's a goddam free-for-all out there!

[Quiff Boy]

Eldritch has always been a bit of a smart arse.

this is what google's +1 was invented for

[drivensnow]

I tend to think of the ironic thing as him "using" things that are seen as goth to lend a dark weight to his music. But I think it's more obvious in, say, the Sisters covering Hot Chocolate's Emma. Because it's a happy funky song, and they totally change the genre and take it to a contrasting place (mind you, it's a clever choice because the lyrics are dark for a pop song). It's also ironic because using a girl's name as the title had became a staple feature of goth (Alice, Laura, Severina et al), and the fact it's a cover of a pop song gives that a tongue-in-cheek- slant... Ok I'm not even sure I'm talking sense anymore.
The best goth music is the goth music that knows that is and just doesn't admit to it.

[mh]

(sings) "It's like metal guitars on a goth record"...

[Sita]

You must have been listening to Spanish music of the Inquisition for the past 6 months to find the original Emma happy

Hot Chocolate Emma

I don't think there was any irony or joke involved in covering this particular song, but of course, I could be wrong. Hot Chocolate were awesome

[Quiff Boy]

You must have been listening to Spanish music of the Inquisition for the past 6 months to find the original Emma happy

Hot Chocolate Emma

I don't think there was any irony or joke involved in covering this particular song, but of course, I could be wrong. Hot Chocolate were awesome

aye, it's one of the gothest non-goth songs ever

[million voices]

Emma was a bad choice if one was looking for "irony"
Surely Jolene would have been a better example

[originalgoth]

I think Von could do a cover of any song and make it better than the original - Emma, Jolene, Gimme Gimme Gimme.
All great songs by the original artistes but then Von got his hands on them & made them a million times better.

I never thought of any of them as ironic or jokey covers, just great songs made better.

Von puts so much more emotion into Emma than Errol Brown did - I bet when Errol heard The Sisters version it made him wish he had sung it with that much emotion at the end.

On a personal note - I called my first Honda Prelude Jolene because my GF at the time said I cared more about the car than I did her
I was sad when I had to replace Jolene

[million voices]

I agree that most of the covers that the Sisters o are jolly good.
They are different to the originals, which is one reason for doing a cover.
However I am disappointed both in Pipeline and John, I'm Only Dancing. Neither of these seem to be anything new and / or startling - merely pale imitations

[Sita]

I think when a cool band is covering "uncool" genres (country, disco), it's mainly meant to provoke their own audience.

[H. Blackrose]

Bloody hell, the bass on the Hot Chocolate original is heavier than the Sisters' version.

[stufarq]

Emma was a bad choice if one was looking for "irony"
Surely Jolene would have been a better example

There may be some sort of connection there. The lyrics to Emma are pure country and western.

[James Blast]

I bet when Errol heard The Sisters version it made him wish he had sung it with that much emotion at the end.

Doubt it.
It was the mid 70s, the charts were all that mattered. I'd wager that single shifted more copies than anything released by a Sisters Of Mercy.

go on las, give us a kickin'...

[Pista]

I think Von could do a cover of any song and make it better than the original

With the exception of Comfortably Numb.

[abridged]

I think Von could do a cover of any song and make it better than the original

With the exception of Comfortably Numb.

Much much better than the original! I think covers songs because he likes them. Probably as simple as that. I know its trendy these days for pop hits to be 'gothed' up and the result is generally horrifying. The great thing about the Sisters covers is that they sound like Sisters originals. Stopp Dragging... did sound like a drunk on the bus though!

[Pista]

Stopp Dragging... did sound like a drunk on the bus though!

[circle]

Stopp Dragging... did sound like a drunk on the bus though!

[Sita]

I think Von could do a cover of any song and make it better than the original

With the exception of Comfortably Numb.

Much much better than the original! I think covers songs because he likes them. Probably as simple as that. I know its trendy these days for pop hits to be 'gothed' up and the result is generally horrifying. The great thing about the Sisters covers is that they sound like Sisters originals. Stopp Dragging... did sound like a drunk on the bus though!

I have the same impression. Just a funny anecdote though about Gimme Shelter, there is this German radio interview where Eldritch says he'd changed the lyrics to improve the song.
I never noticed (cause I barely listen to the Stones' version) but it IS true and Eldritch is right, it makes much more sense his way!
I subtitled it with English a while ago for Aazhyd's radio feature, but I haven't really sat down + figured how to upload stuff to youtube properly

[robm]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY_amJ0YZrM

[million voices]

What Bender says cannot be true, If it is words "other than their literal intention" then that would include sarcasm. It would also include when people get words wrong i.e. when they say "pacific" when they mean "specific".

[stufarq]

What Bender says cannot be true, If it is words "other than their literal intention" then that would include sarcasm. It would also include when people get words wrong i.e. when they say "pacific" when they mean "specific".

You're making the common mistake of confusing sarcasm with irony. Sarcasm is cruel humour such as a cutting remark. It can make use of irony but not necessarily. Irony is, broadly speaking, pretty much as Bender defines it except he misses out the word "deliberate". It's a very basic definition and there are other forms of irony but he's essentially right.

It's absolutely not anything in the Alanis Morissette song. Except possibly the plane one.

[James Blast]

aye, g'nicht