Heartland

Most HLers will have experienced frustration at having to explain who TSOM are to friends and acquaintances. Why did the Girls never make it as big as they deserved ? What was Von's biggest faux pas along the way ?

Not being able to keep a settled line-up for more than five minutes ?
Forgetting to release any new product for two decades ?
Allowing the "Cure - ification" of FALAA ?
A weakness for female sidekicks/duettists who do little to advance the cause ?
Allowing Hussey/James into the fold ?
Or are you one of the dwindling few who believe that has papal infallibility ?

To start the ball rolling, IMHO the most damaging decision was that to release Body and Soul as the first single on WEA in June 84. At that time, the Sisters were one of the coollest names to drop and tipped as the Next Big Thing. A decent song choice would have ensured a top forty chart slot, "Top of the Pops", capturing the zeitgeist and joining contemporaries REM/U2 etc on the path to stardom. In the end, pluggers were faced with a half-paced dirge with no real ending and "yesterday, today, tomorrow" lyrics more at home on an advert for TV sets. OK, the other three tracks, the re-recording of BE, the generic (Short) Train and the fantastically atmospheric Afterhours, revealed the true genius of AE, but many key observers summarily dismissed tha band as irrelevant and a cursory listen to the lead track. No wonder it didn't make it on to FALAA ...

I don't know if this is the way Eldritch sees it - the band is there for anyone that wants to find it, and they are probably living comfortably themselves.

In terms of commercial success, though, I think it was in allowing the early 90's momentum to run out.

Do you mean Tony James, by the way? What was wrong about him?

You may be suffering from a misapprehension that Von wanted to be "as big as they deserved"; or, more precisely, that he should have or could have been expected to wanted to make the aesthetic and professional compromises that that would have entailed.

H. Blackrose wrote:You may be suffering from a misapprehension that Von wanted to be "as big as they deserved"

OK, it was early in the piece, but I distinctly remember an interview with Eldritch (would have been around 83/84) where he said he felt like he WAS important, that he should be noticed - something along the lines of 'when I go out for a pint of milk, I want people to say "look there's Andrew Eldritch"..' or some such talk.

So, certainly, in the early days, he felt he deserved to be 'big'. I doubt he feels that way now.

IMHO, the run of singles from No Time to Cry, Walk Away and certainly (to my mind, the seriously below-par) Body and Soul...did the band no favours at the time. But with This Corrosion and Dominion getting massive MTV play they were certainly in a position to kick on to world domination. However, one thing that held them back then was their perceived market of 'goth rock' - a bit too niche to really, for example, crack America. If they could have shaken that tag (and god knows they tried to...) then the world was their oyster.

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote:Most HLers will have experienced frustration at having to explain who TSOM are to friends and acquaintances.

Nope....don't even try!

The biggest mistake was and is assuming that all record companies are full of s**t after the WEA debacle - if Eminem or REM can be commercially colossal whilst doing exactly what they want, then Von - a way less controversial artist than the former - can also get out there to major audiences.

NTTC is a great track BTW - easily one the girls' best.

Body and Soul - described at the time as "a vision of heaven with everyone on speed" by the band.

Nope, don't buy the theory. If nothing else the band certainly thought that it was the right thing to release back then.

Biggest mistake - not tapping Adam on the shoulder and giving him a gentle reminder that "this is actually my band, you know" back in the late 90s. Or something.

Failing that - playing Torch to Craig back in '85. Although given Mr Adams' propensity for walking out on bands, one may wonder if not doing so would have made any difference.

Tony James wasn't mistake it was sorta marketing/ PR plan and, that's according to Von, kinda payed back for offering him-:von:- in one of T.J.'s band.

I remember that A.E. said in one interview that he would rather see/want TSOM as band that "enrich"* somebody life, than big stadium filler band.

Some of your questions aren't valid, for example, you can't blame author of reception of his work. We life in times when everybody think that he/she knows everything and can interpreted book, filum, muzak and etc. - that's where the misconceptions comes from.
And bad choices are bad choices, it simply happens. In music industry everything isn't so certain and you can't be sure that this song gonna be #1 in TOTP, unless you pay huge pile of money to promote it, like paying for playing every 15 minutes in radio or just have great connection in mass media.

And No time to fry sucks hard. Obviously, IMHO.

* That's word he used in that interview.

I think his one and only mistake was to sign to WEA in the first place. Any other mistakes following that was probably the result of the first error.

mh wrote:Body and Soul - described at the time as "a vision of heaven with everyone on speed" by the band.

Nope, don't buy the theory. If nothing else the band certainly thought that it was the right thing to release back then.

Heaven will know the truth, but anyway they did it - and nobody else had done that before in such a way ...
I'm sure this is one of the songs that caused plenty following bands to start their thing ...

Here partly referring to Nikolas Vitus Lagartija:
U2/REM found themselves struggling heavily afterwards to get together a thing as "easy" as that and it took them some time ...
anyway, both of these band might have got through to some masses later ... but not to me, and U2 surely even less than REM.

mh wrote: Biggest mistake - not tapping Adam on the shoulder and giving him a gentle reminder that "this is actually my band, you know" back in the late 90s. Or something.

Funny you see it like this ... I have always had the impression VON would never listen too deeply to what Adam had to say ...
to me, he seemed to be too compromised by what he had to encounter in the 80ies and used to refer to this when it came to
(only touching) certain issues that could have been part of the general direction and strategy. With the result that he pulled
the thing (and the band) on sideways to the planet edge through smoke and mirrors having to bite the silver bullet in effect
in order to keep running still the very same thing ... with development only slowly slamming through thanks to time rather than anything.

There's no doubt that within this, The Sisters do rock nowadays more than ever ... * big thanks to Chris here ... ....
They could have covered Gift That Shines though (briefly) already in the late 90ies, if it were not for the fact that if one could have, one surely would have ... ...

Anyway, I'm glad we're in 2011 now, The Sisters exist and there's further gigs and time to come ... ...


EDIT:
* with regard to the rock thing, of course. Basically, it should be clear that, IMHO only all the efforts and developments on part of everybody involved have got things to where they are now. Sorry, if that didn't come over in all precision within one word before ...

[quote="Bartek"]And No time to fry sucks hard. Obviously, IMHO.

Obviously.

I think the stupid heart shaped shades were his biggest mistake.

Pista wrote:I think the stupid heart shaped shades were his biggest mistake.

i loved them

i was less a fan of the crew-cut he was sporting around that same time though... although even that is better than this:

Quiff Boy wrote:

Pista wrote:I think the stupid heart shaped shades were his biggest mistake.

i loved them

i was less a fan of the crew-cut he was sporting around that same time though... although even that is better than this:

Isn't that Cliff Richard?

moses wrote:I think his one and only mistake was to sign to WEA in the first place. Any other mistakes following that was probably the result of the first error.

^This.

If one wants to narrow it down further, I'd say the moment came and went with The Sisterhood album. He self-admittedly wanted to be dropped by WEA as early as during the recording of Vision Thing, and his actions following this (incl. that on-stage rant against an exec in New York, '91) only served to paint him further into a corner with his contractual obligations.

Pista wrote:I think the stupid heart shaped shades were his biggest mistake.

Nahhhh, his biggest mistake clearly was to lend someone the white suit*. Everyone knows you never get these things back. He was h-o-t as the Man under the Volcano.

(*source: the Pip Dann MTV interview that can be found on youtube)

Nikolas Vitus Lagartija wrote:Most HLers will have experienced frustration at having to explain who TSOM are to friends and acquaintances. Why did the Girls never make it as big as they deserved ? What was Von's biggest faux pas along the way ?

A lot of people I mention The Sisters to have at least heard of the band, but express sentiments similar to "I didn't know they were still going."

Proof, if proof were needed, that keeping the band going purely as a touring outfit with no recorded output since NINETEEN NINETY FU'CKING THREE is doing nothing for the band's profile.

It all went off the rails in the 90's. "Going on strike" looked very noble and principled to those of us with punk fundamentalist leanings, but let's call it what it really was: a temper-tantrum that probably would have made Von radioactive to almost any label even before the music industry dinosaur collapsed.

That and losing the white suit. It's always easier to get what you want when you're dressed like a Latin American dictator. Probably should have kept the beard, too.

sultan2075 wrote:It's always easier to get what you want when you're dressed like a Latin American dictator.

sultan2075 wrote:Probably should have kept the beard, too.

yup

What about the cane ? Could come in handy as a support on the 50th anniversary tour

markfiend wrote:A lot of people I mention The Sisters to have at least heard of the band, but express sentiments similar to "I didn't know they were still going."

Same here in Germany. Pretty much everyone knows them, *if* you talk to someone around 30 and older. And, yeah, the reply is the same too. Pity that the younger peeps don't know them. But to keep in touch with younger audiences, I guess it's mandatory to have a current album to get some airplay and publicity. For example, I always assume that Madonna made Hard Candy solely to keep in touch with a younger audience. When the Sisters played my town 2 or 3 years ago, it completely escaped even me, and I do listen to my local Indie radio and check the gig announcements in the papers

markfiend wrote: Proof, if proof were needed, that keeping the band going purely as a touring outfit with no recorded output since NINETEEN NINETY FU'CKING THREE is doing nothing for the band's profile.

A band like New Model Army still makes a record every 2 years or so, but still people ask: "Do they still exist? I didnt know that!"

moses wrote:I think his one and only mistake was to sign to WEA in the first place. Any other mistakes following that was probably the result of the first error.

But they offered the best publishing deal for the band, which kept them going through all the tours of 1984-1985, and Merciful Release. Besides he got on fantastically well with the German branch of the label, it's the UK and Electra in the USA that messed everything else up

That east west contract was the only and biggest mistake. i think someone should have mentioned this before me, i agree on that too...

Big Si wrote:
But they offered the best publishing deal for the band, which kept them going through all the tours of 1984-1985, and Merciful Release. Besides he got on fantastically well with the German branch of the label, it's the UK and Electra in the USA that messed everything else up

I thought they were published through RCA?