Heartland

Hey everyone, was there a different sound engineer for the Sisters gigs in the past? I keep hearing rumours of how some of their gigs in the past sounded dreadful. But all I know is, right now their sound rocks. Does this have anything to do with some Jürgen guy?

Ii´s strange because the bad sound started in 2006 in the bullet tour

and before that year Jürgen was the sound man

and i´ve been in gigs for other groups that Jürgen does the sound and were amazing(such as nitzer ebb,covenant)

I started to follow the sisters in 2001, and in 2001-2002-2003-2005 the sound was superb

2007 and 2008 sound was average(for instance suikerock 2008 was perfect)

2009 the tour started very well(brussels was amazing) but from Madrid (REALLY AWFULL) the sound was average(soemtimes good sometimes not)

2010 was brilliant(only was in lokeren) but the reviews from the other were great

2011 for me is superb, now i fell te sound that I love

At Nosturi Guitars were almost buried in the mix in front
At Tavastia Guitars were more upfront in front

Could as well be a question of improved audience recording technique ... ...

Well, joking aside, didn't Von also say in the NZ telephone interview they
had chosen venues that made them sound good for the first part of their birthday tour ... ...

But maybe Jürgen has also taken a closer look at ways of improvement and
the band in general have taken the issue more seriously and changed a few things ...

also they had a couple of new bandmembers around that time, i'm not pointing fingers but maybe they needed time to find there own sound? also didn't the doctor upgrade a couple of years ago?
btw, it is difficult to say, every venue has a different 'sound' and I'm guessing everyone has their own idea when the sound is good.

I think Jürgen Jansen is doing a great job for most gigs - at least the instrumentals sounded well balanced (for my taste). It's not his fault if you can't hear the singer properly (to name the most often complain) cause you can't just raise the level of the vocals at your mixing desk without limitations/side effects.

The best chance for a neat sounding sisters gig is open-air (with soundcheck).

I see, thanks! My (wrong) guessing was that maybe they had a different sound engineer in the past, and then Jürgen came and saved the sound.

I haven't seen them in the last couple of years

But I have seen them. on and off, over the last twenty and usually the sound has been crap to mediocre

I thought this was a deliberate policy to hide the shortcomings of the singer

A drum computer on steroids.

Lack of a bass player. Lack of a good drum set.

Lack of a wide-range vocal.

Drony powerchords.

In other words: muddy mumblings, two guitar players compensating for lack of high sparkle vocal range, bass guitar and small penis.

All considered, Jürgen is doing a helluva job.

IZ.

... ... You've eventually hit the high score of Waynism... ...

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:A drum computer on steroids.

Lack of a bass player. Lack of a good drum set.

Lack of a wide-range vocal.

Drony powerchords.

In other words: muddy mumblings, two guitar players compensating for lack of high sparkle vocal range, bass guitar and small penis.

All considered, Jürgen is doing a helluva job.

IZ.

Personally, I'm digging the lack of bass player - the Doktor manages to get a sound out of the girls you don't hear from most rock / industrial / goff bands, and the sound (when mixed right) is ace!!

To be honest, I don't they're ever going to go back to the sound they pioneered at the start, or the Hussey-guitar sound era, great as those were too. Maybe you are right though that it's time they found another way of performing the same old songs.

Machine Regime wrote: Personally, I'm digging the lack of bass player - the Doktor manages to get a sound out of the girls you don't hear from most rock / industrial / goff bands, and the sound (when mixed right) is ace!!

To be honest, I don't they're ever going to go back to the sound they pioneered at the start, or the Hussey-guitar sound era, great as those were too. Maybe you are right though that it's time they found another way of performing the same old songs.

To me, The Doctor's bass does it's job as a basis - and not more. A real bass player (or some elaborating that part of the Doctor) could be nice. Insofar, I agree.

As to performing ... I've heard them perform the "same old songs" in so many different ways this year, I don't know why other people just won't listen. And especially at Crammerrock, with some songs they really got through to another very precise and specific expression, I absolutely enjoyed, Gift That Shines, Summer, Flood II Vision Thing to name a few ... and all of this despite the fact they had to keep the setlist and songs short as another band was going to play on the other stage after them. They even spared the intro.
Well, unfortunately this does not come through in the recording we've got ... soundwise, some of the vids are better ...

Being645 wrote:

Machine Regime wrote: Personally, I'm digging the lack of bass player - the Doktor manages to get a sound out of the girls you don't hear from most rock / industrial / goff bands, and the sound (when mixed right) is ace!!

To be honest, I don't they're ever going to go back to the sound they pioneered at the start, or the Hussey-guitar sound era, great as those were too. Maybe you are right though that it's time they found another way of performing the same old songs.

To me, The Doctor's bass does it's job as a basis - and not more. A real bass player (or some elaborating that part of the Doctor) could be nice. Insofar, I agree.

As to performing ... I've heard them perform the "same old songs" in so many different ways this year, I don't know why other people just won't listen. And especially at Crammerrock, with some songs they really got through to another very precise and specific expression, I absolutely enjoyed, Gift That Shines, Summer, Flood II Vision Thing to name a few ... and all of this despite the fact they had to keep the setlist and songs short as another band was going to play on the other stage after them. They even spared the intro.
Well, unfortunately this does not come through in the recording we've got ... soundwise, some of the vids are better ...

A bass player is, apart from a real drive on stage, also a super visual aspect. You can see him laying the basis for that fat bass line (you might not like him, but cfr. Maiden's Steve Harris) and simply gives more visual and aural power in a live situation. Certainly with the lack of a real live drummer. Makes it less synthetic and more rawk. What they pretend to be these days anyway, so why not do it good then eh

And tho I really like Summer, which is a song made into the way-past-VT -era, I can almost cry when I hear them rape Temple Of Love live, the song that made me a huge fan back in the days now is a 3-powerchord abomination and it really sounds like 'the obligatory hit single'

Temple Of Love does NOT work with the New Batch IMO, so leave it out of the set please. 'Ribbons' is such a great song, but most of the time I only hear two DZJWAAAANGGGG!!!!!!s followed by a rock stud pose. That's not how the song is supposed to be, it needs tension and building up. Some versions are super tho (can't say which concerts out of my head), so it works from time to time. Ah, maybe it depends, as always, on the mood, the venue, the time and the place.

IZ.

Yeah, I also think that Temple Of Love is long overdue ... ...

Maybe they should revive Poison Door, On The Wire (without Teachers, please), Giving Ground and eventually tackle Far Parade ... ...

DocSommer wrote:I think Jürgen Jansen is doing a great job for most gigs - at least the instrumentals sounded well balanced (for my taste). It's not his fault if you can't hear the singer properly (to name the most often complain) cause you can't just raise the level of the vocals at your mixing desk without limitations/side effects.

The best chance for a neat sounding sisters gig is open-air (with soundcheck).

Yes, festivals are often better than others. Also, it would of course be easier for Jurgen if the only soundchecked a little m ore proffessional. The soundchecks are often a joke and Andrew is very rarely at the soundchecks.

Being645 wrote:

Machine Regime wrote: Personally, I'm digging the lack of bass player - the Doktor manages to get a sound out of the girls you don't hear from most rock / industrial / goff bands, and the sound (when mixed right) is ace!!

To be honest, I don't they're ever going to go back to the sound they pioneered at the start, or the Hussey-guitar sound era, great as those were too. Maybe you are right though that it's time they found another way of performing the same old songs.

To me, The Doctor's bass does it's job as a basis - and not more. A real bass player (or some elaborating that part of the Doctor) could be nice. Insofar, I agree.

As to performing ... I've heard them perform the "same old songs" in so many different ways this year, I don't know why other people just won't listen. And especially at Crammerrock, with some songs they really got through to another very precise and specific expression, I absolutely enjoyed, Gift That Shines, Summer, Flood II Vision Thing to name a few ... and all of this despite the fact they had to keep the setlist and songs short as another band was going to play on the other stage after them. They even spared the intro.
Well, unfortunately this does not come through in the recording we've got ... soundwise, some of the vids are better ...

Spared the intro? What do you mean?

playboy wrote:

DocSommer wrote:I think Jürgen Jansen is doing a great job for most gigs - at least the instrumentals sounded well balanced (for my taste). It's not his fault if you can't hear the singer properly (to name the most often complain) cause you can't just raise the level of the vocals at your mixing desk without limitations/side effects.

The best chance for a neat sounding sisters gig is open-air (with soundcheck).

Yes, festivals are often better than others. Also, it would of course be easier for Jurgen if the only soundchecked a little m ore proffessional. The soundchecks are often a joke and Andrew is very rarely at the soundchecks.

Most bigger bands don't soundcheck themselves, they have their own sound engineer who should know how the sound needs to be, the rest is mere line-checks by the roadies. Might differ slightly for some bands, but most of the time this is how it goes.

Also, festivals for example tend to have soundchecks for the headliners only, the rest of the bands just have a line-check prior to the gig.

IZ.

IZ.

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:

Being645 wrote:

Machine Regime wrote: Personally, I'm digging the lack of bass player - the Doktor manages to get a sound out of the girls you don't hear from most rock / industrial / goff bands, and the sound (when mixed right) is ace!!

To be honest, I don't they're ever going to go back to the sound they pioneered at the start, or the Hussey-guitar sound era, great as those were too. Maybe you are right though that it's time they found another way of performing the same old songs.

To me, The Doctor's bass does it's job as a basis - and not more. A real bass player (or some elaborating that part of the Doctor) could be nice. Insofar, I agree.

As to performing ... I've heard them perform the "same old songs" in so many different ways this year, I don't know why other people just won't listen. And especially at Crammerrock, with some songs they really got through to another very precise and specific expression, I absolutely enjoyed, Gift That Shines, Summer, Flood II Vision Thing to name a few ... and all of this despite the fact they had to keep the setlist and songs short as another band was going to play on the other stage after them. They even spared the intro.
Well, unfortunately this does not come through in the recording we've got ... soundwise, some of the vids are better ...

A bass player is, apart from a real drive on stage, also a super visual aspect. You can see him laying the basis for that fat bass line (you might not like him, but cfr. Maiden's Steve Harris) and simply gives more visual and aural power in a live situation. Certainly with the lack of a real live drummer. Makes it less synthetic and more rawk. What they pretend to be these days anyway, so why not do it good then eh

And tho I really like Summer, which is a song made into the way-past-VT -era, I can almost cry when I hear them rape Temple Of Love live, the song that made me a huge fan back in the days now is a 3-powerchord abomination and it really sounds like 'the obligatory hit single'

Temple Of Love does NOT work with the New Batch IMO, so leave it out of the set please. 'Ribbons' is such a great song, but most of the time I only hear two DZJWAAAANGGGG!!!!!!s followed by a rock stud pose. That's not how the song is supposed to be, it needs tension and building up. Some versions are super tho (can't say which concerts out of my head), so it works from time to time. Ah, maybe it depends, as always, on the mood, the venue, the time and the place.

IZ.

I totally agree! The Sisters with a real bass is POWER! For those who don´t know what we are talking about, listen to songs like Emma, Gimme Shelter etc.. and the 1993 version of Alice where Andrew is playing a killer bass. This is The Sisters Of Mercy. Powerchords WITH melody and WITH a bass that felt in the stomache. That made them unique.
Todays sisters with only powerchords made the appear as a shoolband trying to learn the basis in the songs of The Sisters Of Mercy, yet to find a guitarplayer who can give melody and a bassplayer to give som real intense power and holding the songs togehter....

playboy wrote:

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:

Being645 wrote: To me, The Doctor's bass does it's job as a basis - and not more. A real bass player (or some elaborating that part of the Doctor) could be nice. Insofar, I agree.

As to performing ... I've heard them perform the "same old songs" in so many different ways this year, I don't know why other people just won't listen. And especially at Crammerrock, with some songs they really got through to another very precise and specific expression, I absolutely enjoyed, Gift That Shines, Summer, Flood II Vision Thing to name a few ... and all of this despite the fact they had to keep the setlist and songs short as another band was going to play on the other stage after them. They even spared the intro.
Well, unfortunately this does not come through in the recording we've got ... soundwise, some of the vids are better ...

A bass player is, apart from a real drive on stage, also a super visual aspect. You can see him laying the basis for that fat bass line (you might not like him, but cfr. Maiden's Steve Harris) and simply gives more visual and aural power in a live situation. Certainly with the lack of a real live drummer. Makes it less synthetic and more rawk. What they pretend to be these days anyway, so why not do it good then eh

And tho I really like Summer, which is a song made into the way-past-VT -era, I can almost cry when I hear them rape Temple Of Love live, the song that made me a huge fan back in the days now is a 3-powerchord abomination and it really sounds like 'the obligatory hit single'

Temple Of Love does NOT work with the New Batch IMO, so leave it out of the set please. 'Ribbons' is such a great song, but most of the time I only hear two DZJWAAAANGGGG!!!!!!s followed by a rock stud pose. That's not how the song is supposed to be, it needs tension and building up. Some versions are super tho (can't say which concerts out of my head), so it works from time to time. Ah, maybe it depends, as always, on the mood, the venue, the time and the place.

IZ.

I totally agree! The Sisters with a real bass is POWER! For those who don´t know what we are talking about, listen to songs like Emma, Gimme Shelter etc.. and the 1993 version of Alice where Andrew is playing a killer bass. This is The Sisters Of Mercy. Powerchords WITH melody and WITH a bass that felt in the stomache. That made them unique.
Todays sisters with only powerchords made the appear as a shoolband trying to learn the basis in the songs of The Sisters Of Mercy, yet to find a guitarplayer who can give melody and a bassplayer to give som real intense power and holding the songs togehter....

Will I dream

IZ.

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:

playboy wrote:

DocSommer wrote:I think Jürgen Jansen is doing a great job for most gigs - at least the instrumentals sounded well balanced (for my taste). It's not his fault if you can't hear the singer properly (to name the most often complain) cause you can't just raise the level of the vocals at your mixing desk without limitations/side effects.

The best chance for a neat sounding sisters gig is open-air (with soundcheck).

Yes, festivals are often better than others. Also, it would of course be easier for Jurgen if the only soundchecked a little m ore proffessional. The soundchecks are often a joke and Andrew is very rarely at the soundchecks.

Most bigger bands don't soundcheck themselves, they have their own sound engineer who should know how the sound needs to be, the rest is mere line-checks by the roadies. Might differ slightly for some bands, but most of the time this is how it goes.

Also, festivals for example tend to have soundchecks for the headliners only, the rest of the bands just have a line-check prior to the gig.

IZ.

IZ.

The Sisters are not in the category "bigger bands" anymore. They were bigger 1990-1993 and at that time they did proper soundchecks with all members including Andrew.


Besides it is not really true, maybe in some cases. I have been to some soundchecks over the years, in later years U2, Roger Waters, Kylie Minogue. All of them did loooooong soundchecks, with bandmembers and vocals (not vocal from som crewmember).

playboy wrote:

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:

playboy wrote: Yes, festivals are often better than others. Also, it would of course be easier for Jurgen if the only soundchecked a little m ore proffessional. The soundchecks are often a joke and Andrew is very rarely at the soundchecks.

Most bigger bands don't soundcheck themselves, they have their own sound engineer who should know how the sound needs to be, the rest is mere line-checks by the roadies. Might differ slightly for some bands, but most of the time this is how it goes.

Also, festivals for example tend to have soundchecks for the headliners only, the rest of the bands just have a line-check prior to the gig.

IZ.

IZ.

The Sisters are not in the category "bigger bands" anymore. They were bigger 1990-1993 and at that time they did proper soundchecks with all members including Andrew.


Besides it is not really true, maybe in some cases. I have been to some soundchecks over the years, in later years U2, Roger Waters, Kylie Minogue. All of them did loooooong soundchecks, with bandmembers and vocals (not vocal from som crewmember).

There's your "might differ for some bands" Most of them don't have time for that, most of the time this is the fault of the time schedule. 200 bands on one day leaves no room for soundchecks. Quantity over quality and all that...

IZ.

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:

playboy wrote:

Izzy HaveMercy wrote: Most bigger bands don't soundcheck themselves, they have their own sound engineer who should know how the sound needs to be, the rest is mere line-checks by the roadies. Might differ slightly for some bands, but most of the time this is how it goes.

Also, festivals for example tend to have soundchecks for the headliners only, the rest of the bands just have a line-check prior to the gig.

IZ.

IZ.

The Sisters are not in the category "bigger bands" anymore. They were bigger 1990-1993 and at that time they did proper soundchecks with all members including Andrew.


Besides it is not really true, maybe in some cases. I have been to some soundchecks over the years, in later years U2, Roger Waters, Kylie Minogue. All of them did loooooong soundchecks, with bandmembers and vocals (not vocal from som crewmember).

There's your "might differ for some bands" Most of them don't have time for that, most of the time this is the fault of the time schedule. 200 bands on one day leaves no room for soundchecks. Quantity over quality and all that...

IZ.

You are right, but I was not talking about festivals. The soundcecks I talked about was on the bands tour.
Festivals is a different thing.

playboy wrote:

Izzy HaveMercy wrote: There's your "might differ for some bands" Most of them don't have time for that, most of the time this is the fault of the time schedule. 200 bands on one day leaves no room for soundchecks. Quantity over quality and all that...

IZ.

You are right, but I was not talking about festivals. The soundcecks I talked about was on the bands tour.
Festivals is a different thing.

So what? The Sisters sound great nowadays!!! ... ... ...

As to festivals, even in the late 1990ies and 2000s The Sisters did orderly soundchecks. I heard them for example in Lokeren last year. In addition at some festivals, especially the large 2- or 3-day ones, only the headlining bands get soundcheck time ... if at all, as Izzy already pointed out ...

Last two years,sound is really good,nothing like the 2008's frantic high volume doctor and everything else almost missing.

Sound check and all that ingineering things are really inportant,but I miss the sound of the nice long flangered guitars by Pearson the most.Imagine the nowadays "polished"(or tuned) sound with his guitars,,,not to start the old thread again,but guitars are fuckin' important,aren't they?
I like the "new" improvised guitars on Flood II but can't Ben make the guitar sounds a little longer because it's like the sound is cut in a way.

Ben plays bass in Neverland and Romeo Down. Only noticed when I saw sisterstekland's 2011 MultiCam DVD...

The 1991, 2006, 2008 and 2009 concerts in Portugal all had good sound. Even the dreadful event of Marés Vivas 2008, had good sound, the problem seemed to be the band that wasn't as tight as they should and Von loosing his Mic (or voice, you choose).