Heartland

Posted: **31 Jul 2003, 08:14**

I collect 3 things mainly Sisters, Beatles and Floyd.

Whenever something New on the Sisters FLoyd and for that Matter Zeppelin circuit, Fans are only too happy to share what they have and trade & weed.

Why is is when A sisters fan has something they NEVER want to let others hear it? Like this is my jar of sweets and your not having any.

Surely collectors who have ultra rare stuff would want others to share what they have, but choose not to.

Im thinking things Like, the Gigs Sessions (inc JRs Corrosion), Or Leeds 96 or Philly 99 video.

Matt

PS Though myself, when Ive had a tape thats stipulated Not for Trade I have always honoured that.

Posted: **31 Jul 2003, 10:14**

What irritates me is when 1 song is deliberately removed from a concert recording, as seems to be the case on more than a few 84/85 CDRs

Posted: **31 Jul 2003, 10:19**

well if its any help the Exeter 84 gig IS complete, I made sure of that!!

MAtt

Posted: **31 Jul 2003, 10:31**

the simple answer is 'its just the way it is'
traditionally Floyd appeal to the people who are involved in that
great US institution the Grateful Dead and so trading ethics get passed along. I wasn't aware that beatles traders were that communal judging from all the high end boots that were produced. Same with stones fans where selling is the norm. I used to trade Zep tapes but had difficulty finding reliable traders, true they weed alot but they also chuck around loads of utter rubbish and the majority of them seem incapable of burning a cd - damning generalisation I know, but its as I found and left it.

Sisters trading is a different ball game altogether - it used to be that hard to get hold of anything that it was a bit of a tradition to carry on the ritual. Things seem a bit better these days but lots of lists have shows with 'rare trades only' labels on them which I find a bit odd - if you personally tape a show I'd have thought its in your best interests to get it out to as many people as possible so that it lives on and everybody can admire you recording prowess (plus what happens when you stuff your copy and nobody else has it ?).

I'm not sure how good an idea weeding shows is - I've unsubscribed from a few lists because they get full of people offering weeds and vines - they make boring reading and stop people making and effort because they know and expect everything for free - and moan when they don't get it. I've run a few trees on other lists where I've handed out cracking recordings and got not even a 'thanks' back - so for all the effort it leaves a bit of a sour taste and I wish I hadn't bothered.

On the Floyd subject I have the recent digital b'cast of the Floyd Wembley DSOTM broadcast if you want to trade for it.

allfear wrote:I collect 3 things mainly Sisters, Beatles and Floyd.

Whenever something New on the Sisters FLoyd and for that Matter Zeppelin circuit, Fans are only too happy to share what they have and trade & weed.

Why is is when A sisters fan has something they NEVER want to let others hear it? Like this is my jar of sweets and your not having any.

Surely collectors who have ultra rare stuff would want others to share what they have, but choose not to.

Im thinking things Like, the Gigs Sessions (inc JRs Corrosion), Or Leeds 96 or Philly 99 video.

Matt

PS Though myself, when Ive had a tape thats stipulated Not for Trade I have always honoured that.

Posted: **31 Jul 2003, 13:33**

allfear wrote:I collect 3 things mainly Sisters, Beatles and Floyd.

Me too. Up until last year there's been 3 or 4 Beatles sites that uploaded a new bootleg cd every month, that dwindled to 2 until they went inactive. The Floyd sites have dwindled but you can still get 1 or 2 bootlegs a month when the sites update.
What annoys me with the way Floyd fans trade is the HUGE list of rules, and they seem OBSESSED with quality, like mp3's must never be burned as cd's, all cd's MUST be burned from .shn files (which seems to be some sort of lossless format where the files are f*cking huge).

allfear wrote:Why is is when A sisters fan has something they NEVER want to let others hear it? Like this is my jar of sweets and your not having any.

We're all fans of the same band, and it seems stupid for people to behave like this. Recently in my tape collection I found a very early recording of Sonic Youth. I searched the net and found that it was their 2nd gig, and only found one person on the net who had a copy......so I did the right thing and mp3'd it up and posted it to usenet. I hope I pissed on someone's bonfire

allfear wrote:...Or Leeds 96 or Philly 99 video.

Does Leeds'96 exist then?
I seem to remember someone finding it on a site or ftp somewhere but it was something else wrongly labelled, and I'd love an audio of Philly'99 (I don't care a damn for the video, bootleg video's are almost always crap - bad camera work, can't see the stage, etc..) for the fact that they played a small piece of "Sweet Home Alabama" at this gig. Again, I've never heard that a recording exists, but I'm sure someone's gonna reply saying "nerrrr! I have it in green and red and black vinyl......autographed."

Posted: **31 Jul 2003, 14:03**

Couldn't agree more, although it is changing to some extent.

For example, anyone who asked me nicely for details of the recent Dam boot, I copied and sent 'em one, covers and all.

Now, I'll ask again, does anyone know a url for boot covers?

Dave

Posted: **31 Jul 2003, 14:19**

Dave Whelan wrote:Couldn't agree more, although it is changing to some extent.

For example, anyone who asked me nicely for details of the recent Dam boot, I copied and sent 'em one, covers and all.

Now, I'll ask again, does anyone know a url for boot covers?

Dave

not that i'm aware of.

lachert has small scans on most of his stuff:

http://www.geocities.com/lachert108/bootlegs.html

but they arent really big enough to be of any use

Posted: **31 Jul 2003, 14:24**

Christer's site has got, but he's watermarked his scans:
http://www.sisterstrading.com

Posted: **31 Jul 2003, 14:25**

theres a few here :

http://www.lwtua.free-online.co.uk/0.htm

couldn't find much else

Dave Whelan wrote:Couldn't agree more, although it is changing to some extent.

For example, anyone who asked me nicely for details of the recent Dam boot, I copied and sent 'em one, covers and all.

Now, I'll ask again, does anyone know a url for boot covers?

Dave

Posted: **31 Jul 2003, 14:29**

I have given this a lot of thought my self, and come to the following conclusions :-

1....Kiddie in the playground syndrome...you have something virtually no one else has and you want to keep it that way as it makes you feel kind of cool and top of the heap

2....traders...in my opionion the worst of the worst (sorry if i am treading on toes here )but they aint going to share unless you have something they dont, and as normally they have pretty much everything going not much chance there...plus dan has it right in that there about 50 rules and regulations to be obeyed or else.Now i might be in a minority of one, but i just want to hear the gig weather it be mp3 , wav ,ogg vorbis or whatever....in fact i would go as far to say that mp3 is made for bootlegs....as long as it is encoded properly at 192or so, you aint going to notice much difference over the original ( proper studio recordings are a different matter)

....3 Prospectors...im sure some people view bootlegs as an invest ment (and after seeing some of the prices paid on ebay, maybe they have a point

) and want to keep the chances of "their bootleg" being watered down, as slim as possible
.....4 and i suppose they legal issue has to be taken in to account...or why is it i can download gigs by U2,Oasis ,REM,Cure,Smiths;Killing joke et all from forums and web sites yet sisters ...no....or at least untill jansonclone started his sisters groups.

any way a few points to mull over

cheers dave

Posted: **31 Jul 2003, 14:33**

agreed, with all the above.

if i have something, anyone can have it. apart from a couple of exceptions where the sources have explicitly asked me not to circulate - usually due to the rarity and thus tracability of said items...

Posted: **31 Jul 2003, 15:03**

Firstly I agree with the whole "rare" culture, it's a load of bollocks and I try to ignore it, EXCEPT, like everyone says, when requested to keep something rare. I've never decided to make an item "rare", and am far more inclined to make something "not rare" if not requested.

As James said the missing tracks on the early gigs is annoying and childish.

I started trading before I has access to a broadband connection, so the only way to get the gigs I wanted was by trading them, buying bootlegs has never really been an option for, partly due to availability and partly due to ethics.

Trading is, for now at least, the way things work. I wanted to have a lot of Sisters bootleg recordings, and going from the 12 or so gigs I started out with to the 300+ I've got now, I'd say trading has served me well.

I got no problem with giving away gigs, so long as it's within reason, I like the person and it doesn't cost me too much to get the thing to them (postage is a factor when you live half a world away).

Just my 2 cents.

Posted: **31 Jul 2003, 15:24**

elguiri wrote:I have given this a lot of thought my self, and come to the following conclusions :-

1....Kiddie in the playground syndrome...you have something virtually no one else has and you want to keep it that way as it makes you feel kind of cool and top of the heap

I can never see the fun in that at all - I like seeing how far my stuff gets. I used to get pissed off with seeing it on ebay but thats something we just have to live with - theres always some lowlife trying to make money out of somebody. I think a *rare trade* has more chance of getting its way to ebay than something thats easily obtainable

Sisters traders are, by far, the worst for playing the *rare trades* game.
It does imply they are big cheeses dangling something you can't have in front of your nose. But if its that rare why list in in the first place ? If you didn't tape the gig yourself whats rare about it - you got it off somebody
else.

going not much chance there...plus dan has it right in that there about 50 rules and regulations to be obeyed or else.Now i might be in a minority of one, but i just want to hear the gig weather it be mp3 , wav ,ogg vorbis or whatever....in fact i would go as far to say that mp3 is made for bootlegs....as long as it is encoded properly at 192or so, you aint going to notice much difference over the original ( proper studio recordings are a different matter)

well thats one big rats nest you've just opened up - whether you can hear the encoding or not depends on the quality of material you're encoding - if its straight off the radio or studio quality - you will make a better job of it if the bitrate is high enough - if you encode a hissy tape to mp3 you will start to hear artifacts because some of the algorithm is encoding the hiss as well as the music and it only has a fixed amount of bitrate to put all the sound in - so something has got to give.

Depends what you want out of your trading I suppose. I used to love some of the high gen tapes I got when I was a teenager at record fairs and stuff, played them to death - but comparing them to some of the cdr clones that you can trade for now the quality is the diference between night and day and I can't believe I spent so much time with the old tape.
Quality does matter to quite alot of people, I think mp3's are a complete bag of s**t and wouldn't give them the time of day, they sap the life out of recordings sure you can tell what happened at the gig but the results are flat and lifeless. But some people don't mind, whatevers easy for you.

....3 Prospectors...im sure some people view bootlegs as an invest ment (and after seeing some of the prices paid on ebay, maybe they have a point :eek: ) and want to keep the chances of "their bootleg" being watered down, as slim as possible

people get too precious about their recordings. After all what did we do -
stand there and tape a gig which somebody else did all the hard work at.
If the band are happy to allow it there shouldn't be any restrictions on who
gets copies afterwards

Posted: **31 Jul 2003, 19:24**

James wrote:What irritates me is when 1 song is deliberately removed from a concert recording, as seems to be the case on more than a few 84/85 CDRs

Do you have a list of which gigs have missing tracks, and what the missing track is? I've spent years hunting down missing tracks for some of the gigs, an would be interested to know if there's any I've missed.

Posted: **31 Jul 2003, 20:35**

Hanley 25.10.84 missing train
Deinze 01.06.84 1 song must check which ?
Sheffield 27.10.84 Sister ray

a so....

Posted: **31 Jul 2003, 21:04**

taylor wrote:Hanley 25.10.84 missing train
Deinze 01.06.84 1 song must check which ?
Sheffield 27.10.84 Sister ray

a so....

My Sheffield has Sister Ray

Posted: **31 Jul 2003, 21:06**

taylor wrote: Deinze 01.06.84 1 song must check which ?

Gimmie Shelter

think someone messed with the Glasgow soundcheck too. sounds like it was good, but its been purposfully been muddied

Posted: **31 Jul 2003, 21:59**

Some stuff never appear becuase the person who have the recordings isnÂ´t in the trading circus.
I know that Hamburg 17.11.90, The Docks, London 20.12.93 and London 21.12.93, 22.12.93 Birmingham and Glauchau 97 is out there as mixing desk copys. But the person who have them isnÂ´t trading shows.

Posted: **31 Jul 2003, 22:08**

Is Wembley 24.11.90 Mixing Desk a rare one?

Posted: **01 Aug 2003, 05:51**

What annoys me with the way Floyd fans trade is the HUGE list of rules, and they seem OBSESSED with quality,

well ther are lots of different qualitys of some shows, and after all if there is a choice you naturally want the best.

> like mp3's must never be burned as cd's,

That is a fair point though, if something is an MP3 that it shold be left as an mp3, it is after all a lossy crap compressed format, same goes for mini disc.

all cd's MUST be burned from .shn files (which seems to be some sort of lossless format where the files are f*cking huge).

SHN is uncompressed audio, I prefer to trade proper Audio CDs and be done with it.

allfear wrote:...Or Leeds 96 or Philly 99 video.

Does Leeds'96 exist then?

Well this is a msystery, but what I do know is there was someone there who taped it with a portable tape recorder as 2 friends who were both there saw this, though ive never found out who the taper was.

(I don't care a damn for the video, bootleg video's are almost always crap - bad camera work, can't see the stage, etc..)

Not all are crap, eg astoria 01 , philly 97

for the fact that they played a small piece of "Sweet Home Alabama" at this gig.

but also i understand it is very good quailty and one of the last gigs with mike V in the band.

best

matt

Posted: **01 Aug 2003, 05:56**

Dan wrote:
taylor wrote:Sheffield 27.10.84 Sister ray

.

There are 2 sources of this one, the one missing sister ray done by radioactive is missing cause its not on the original master, prolly due to switching off the tape and nippin off for last orders before the end of the gig.

I konw cause ive had the master tape in my hand!!!

Matt

Posted: **01 Aug 2003, 07:25**

Dan wrote: Do you have a list of which gigs have missing tracks, and what the missing track is? I've spent years hunting down missing tracks for some of the gigs, an would be interested to know if there's any I've missed.

? = not sure if played/recorded in the first place

Oxford 18 May 84 Emma
Lier 31 May 84 Sister Ray?
Longbeach 30 May 85 Possession?
Chicago 3 June 85 Emma (many people have it, I don't) I've also seen it listed with an encore of Body Electric/Train on a very big collector's list.

Posted: **01 Aug 2003, 11:11**

Dan wrote:Is Wembley 24.11.90 Mixing Desk a rare one?

Why do you have it?

Me would like

MAtt

Posted: **01 Aug 2003, 14:16**

Oxford 18 May 84 Emma - I have this. It's been edited from the the recording most people have presumably cos the song is incomplete (maybe the tape ran out or got stopped?) It lasts for 3:26 which only gets as far as the first verse and chorus.

Lier 31 May 84 Sister Ray? - Yeh, mine is only 49 min, ends with Gimme Shelter

Longbeach 30 May 85 Possession? wasn't played at this gig

Chicago 3 June 85 Emma (many people have it, I don't) I've also seen it listed with an encore of Body Electric/Train on a very big collector's list. - Mine has Emma, but not Body Electric/Train.

Posted: **01 Aug 2003, 14:19**

Heartland

What bugs me about sisters trading............

What bugs me about sisters trading............

Re: What bugs me about sisters trading............

Re: What bugs me about sisters trading............

Re: What bugs me about sisters trading............