Heartland

YWNA.

and because of that, the real truth is out. to the independent panel.
x infinity for everyone who fought for today.

emilystrange wrote:YWNA.

and because of that, the real truth is out. to the independent panel.
x infinity for everyone who fought for today.

Seconded. Was there on that fateful day (in the other end from the Leppings Lane) and everyone knew from the start what the real truth was. Today's apologies are too little, too late, and sound rather hollow.

words are useless in the face of that.

Its a football thing, no

IZ.

For IZ:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster

It's a crying shame that it's taken this long for anyone to man up.
To put the families and friends through the last few years of suffering is unforgivable, no matter how many apologies they receive.

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:Its a football thing, no

IZ.

More a spectacularly brazen police cover-up thing now.

A lot of people accepted the police version of events after the pretty sickening behaviour of Liverpool fans in Heysel. Seems as if the South Yorkshire police took advantage of that to cover up their own mistakes and went on a massive smear campaign with the (unwitting perhaps, but gleeful) help of the likes of Kelvin McKensie of "The Sun".
Considering how critical of the police the official report in the early 90's was, it makes you wonder what it might have been had the full facts been known. Bit confused as to why Cameron's apologising for it though. No doing of his, or even his party.

DeWinter wrote:...or even his party.

Thatcher was PM at the time...

markfiend wrote:

DeWinter wrote:...or even his party.

Thatcher was PM at the time...

Now why doesn't that surprise me?

markfiend wrote:

DeWinter wrote:...or even his party.

Thatcher was PM at the time...

Bit of a stretch to blame her or the Conservatives though.

DeWinter wrote:

markfiend wrote:

DeWinter wrote:...or even his party.

Thatcher was PM at the time...

Bit of a stretch to blame her or the Conservatives though.

I'd blame her for the great Fire of London

This does suggest that she was, if not complicit in the cover-up, unwilling that the police should take the blame for the disaster.

The Mish played Sheffield last night,Wayne literally walked on stage and before playing a note said "Justice for the 96" He returned to the theme a few times during the set,including a remark on how it was ironic that they happened to be in Sheffirled yesterday,of all days. They were bloody brilliant as well.

markfiend wrote:

DeWinter wrote:

markfiend wrote: Thatcher was PM at the time...

Bit of a stretch to blame her or the Conservatives though.

I'd blame her for the great Fire of London

This does suggest that she was, if not complicit in the cover-up, unwilling that the police should take the blame for the disaster.

She had a loathing for football fans, the North of England and Liverpool as a city in particular. I think there were documents released (though it may have been just a recent rumour - can't quite remember) that admitted that she and her top people would've happily let Liverpool rot as an example to the rest of the country.

abridged wrote:She had a loathing for football fans, the North of England and Liverpool as a city in particular. I think there were documents released (though it may have been just a recent rumour - can't quite remember) that admitted that she and her top people would've happily let Liverpool rot as an example to the rest of the country.

Indeed. I seem to recall one of the Thatcher cabinet even saying so overtly. Off to google...

Hmm. This looks like it might be what I was thinking of...

Oh come now. It's a bit unfair to blame her for the "managed decline" idea of the man who knifed her in the back eventually. Especially as she didn't act on it.

I think Edwina Currie had a similar idea, inbetween bouts of doubtless functional, missionary position sex with Major. I was there about two years back. Surprisingly pretty, and surprisingly empty.:/

DeWinter wrote:Oh come now. It's a bit unfair to blame her for the "managed decline" idea of the man who knifed her in the back eventually. Especially as she didn't act on it.

Fair point & it was 8 years before Hillsborough too.
But at the time of the event itself, she was in the driving seat.
Yep, there were ministers "running" things, but ultimate responsibility for their actions (or, in this case, inactions) should fall to her.

Do you think she had no idea what was going on?
She wasn't stupid. Not by a long chalk.
Evil yes. Stupid?? Deffo not.

I just watched this video that was posted on another forum.

Another FA Cup Semi Final.....at Hillsborough.

The very same Leppings Lane Stand in 1981....

Big Si wrote:I just watched this video that was posted on another forum.

Another FA Cup Semi Final.....at Hillsborough.

The very same Leppings Lane Stand in 1981....

Many fans who had visited Wednesday as an away fan in that era will have had a similar tale to tell. The basic problem was that when through the turnstiles at the away end it appeared that the only way into the terracing was through the central tunnel under the ground which only gave access to the central pens. The two end pens (divided by lateral fences) could only be accessed by going round the side, which did not look like an obvious entrance. At most big games therefore the central pens, to which the tunnel was the only entrance/exit IIRC, would become over-full, dangerously so on some occasions (as in 81). The fatal difference in 89 was the opening of the gates causing the surge of fans who headed to the only obvious entrance to the terraces. So yes, an accident waiting to happen, but what happened after 3pm on the day and in the weeks afterwards was self-evidently criminal at the time, but even those of us who pointed the finger at South Yorks Police have been shocked by the scale of this week's revelations.

The ignorance that people have about this, even now, astounds me. It is such an emotive subject that unless people take the time to look into the subject they shouldn't really comment. I welcome debate as long as people make the effort.

Re Thatcher's part in all this.

Its undeniable that she had a loyalty to South Yorkshire police after the 'help' they gave her to break the miners strike of the mid '80s. She had to be aware that the police falsified reports then and hence shouldn't have been surprised when they did it again. When she was told their evidence was quite false she didn't publicise the fact. Nobody was sacked. The verdict of the inquest was not overturned. She left the families of the 96 to fight for justice. For 23 long years...

Mav787 wrote:The ignorance that people have about this, even now, astounds me. It is such an emotive subject that unless people take the time to look into the subject they shouldn't really comment. I welcome debate as long as people make the effort.

Re Thatcher's part in all this.

Its undeniable that she had a loyalty to South Yorkshire police after the 'help' they gave her to break the miners strike of the mid '80s. She had to be aware that the police falsified reports then and hence shouldn't have been surprised when they did it again. When she was told their evidence was quite false she didn't publicise the fact. Nobody was sacked. The verdict of the inquest was not overturned. She left the families of the 96 to fight for justice. For 23 long years...

& so should face the music.