Heartland

Post created after a post on another thread;

I hate the term "conspiracy theorist" for a start. It's derogatory and invites attack and ridicule.

I'm a 100% 9/11 truther to begin with. I've read EVERYTHING possible on both sides and it doesn't add up. whatsoever. It scares me. Governments lie to us on a daily basis and yet people actually accept what's in the 9/11 Commission Report. I find this the most worrying part.

Anyone else have doubts or at least question? When and what on?

Dr. David Kelly's demise - how very fortunate that he should die shortly before being called to give evidence. And how co-inkiedental! Surely the government had nothing to do with it. Cuz, you know, no government's never bumped anyone off in order to protect a secret.

And yes, there's an awful lot about the events of September 11 that don't stack up or bear close scrutiny. "Conspiracy theorist" was coined by people who were stupid enough to think that the government would never lie to the electorate. It can, it does, and it will - "the truth is whatever we want you to believe that it is."

EvilBastard wrote:Dr. David Kelly's demise - how very fortunate that he should die shortly before being called to give evidence. And how co-inkiedental! Surely the government had nothing to do with it. Cuz, you know, no government's never bumped anyone off in order to protect a secret.

Well yes but it also makes perfect sense that the stress of the situation might lead him to commit suicide at that precise time. Occam's razor and all that.

Yes, we do know that conspiracies take place. We know because they usually get found out. The more people there are keeping a secret the more likely they won't keep it secret very long. The ones that people love to theorise about but which haven't been proven very probably didn't happen. Occam's razor and all that.

The 9/11 thing... if it wasn't Flight 77 that hit the Pentagon, where did that plane go?

markfiend wrote:The 9/11 thing... if it wasn't Flight 77 that hit the Pentagon, where did that plane go?

Bravo, sir, bravo.

so let's say the truth about 9/11 is not like we were told, that it was some sort of corp. oil-military-indutries-dog-knows-who-else conspiracy, what's next? obvious that answer for question cui bono? is military ind., but if other theorie is that it was secret(-secret) services conspiracy answer for cui bono is not to so obvious. i mean if they had/has so much power to do that, to convince milions (if not bilions) of people that it was suicide terrorist attack and on that (and few other) reason(s) start 2 wars, gain more and more power, then how we can change it? is there any chance to change it at all?
i'm asking aboout practical solution, because, beliving in other therories about 9/11, elections is not an option? i guess that rebelion/revolt is also not and option- where is occupy wall stree movement? only hope is/are annonymous, that they will let us see some of that data.

Actually there is one 9/11 conspiracy theory that I find convincing. There was a TV documentary a few years ago although I can't remember who by or what it was called. Anyway, the argument was that Al-Qaeda didn't exist before 9/11, when the US administration as a scapegoat. There were, of course, lots of individual terrorist cells with some degree of connection through training camps and so on but there was no organised network. The US had been trying to get Bin laden for years because he sponsored terrorism and ran training camps but he'd always managed to cover himself and they couldn't find an excuse to bring him to trial.

When 9/11 happened, the US response was to say that only one organisation had the resources to organise it - Al-Qaeda, which was run by Bin Laden. But how many of us had heard of Bin Laden before 9/11? And more imprtantly, had anyone heard of Al-Qaeda? The argument was that Al-Qaeda didn't actually exist and was invented by the US as a means of getting Bin Laden. Of course, they knew that he'd happily play along because it served his purposes.

I can't remember all the evidence but apparently there were no records of Al-Qaeda pre-9/11 but there were records of discussions about inventing an organisation to attach his name to. Then 9/11 happened and fitted in perfectly with the plan. At the time the programme seemed quite compelling to me who usually scorns conspiracy theories.

Purple Light wrote: I hate the term "conspiracy theorist" for a start. It's derogatory and invites attack and ridicule.

Yep. It should be called "conspiracy paranoid" instead, since a "theory" is plausible, consistent and falsifiable, all of which usually doesn't apply to conspiracy paranoias.

Interestingly, I have read a piece drawing quite frightening parallels between Al-Qaeda and the Fremen of the Dune novels. To the point where it's entirely possible that the latter were used as a model for the former.

that is far from truth. terrorist attack on US Embassy in Kenia (1998), blasting car under WTC in 1993, attack on USS Cole in 2000- on all of that Al-Qaeda is/was arrogated/blamed.
to be clear, i'm not saying that we know everything about 9/11, but because of lack of evidence and because of situation in Pooland (Smolensk air crash and using words: murder, blast, assasination) i'm a bit fed up with all conspiracy theories. i don't have special knowlegde but i can listen and read and if i see holes in theory, then ... it has holes.

markfiend wrote:Interestingly, I have read a piece drawing quite frightening parallels between Al-Qaeda and the Fremen of the Dune novels.

Thats intentional - kind of! I'm not sure it's frightening but the Butlerian Jihad, the Zensunni stuff, the fedaykin... It's all very firmly based on that part of the world.

Orthodox Herbertarians rule

Bartek wrote:that is far from truth. terrorist attack on US Embassy in Kenia (1998), blasting car under WTC in 1993, attack on USS Cole in 2000- on all of that Al-Qaeda is/was arrogated/blamed.

At the time or after 9/11?

stufarq wrote:

Bartek wrote:that is far from truth. terrorist attack on US Embassy in Kenia (1998), blasting car under WTC in 1993, attack on USS Cole in 2000- on all of that Al-Qaeda is/was arrogated/blamed.

At the time or after 9/11?

At the time. I am away from home for a few days, but there are a few good books I can recommend on the subject when I get home. The best is probably Through Our Enemies' Eyes, by Anonymous (since revealed to be Michael Scheuer). There's a good book by an English journalist as well--Bergen, perhaps?

OBL/al-Qaeda get off the ground in the 90's. They undergo a change in strategic direction in the mid/late 90's, deciding that before they can topple apostate regimes at home, they need to attack the US.

Zeitgeist The Movie

For any who haven't seen it - the section on 9/11 is compelling viewing.

nowayjose wrote:

Purple Light wrote: I hate the term "conspiracy theorist" for a start. It's derogatory and invites attack and ridicule.

Yep. It should be called "conspiracy paranoid" instead, since a "theory" is plausible, consistent and falsifiable, all of which usually doesn't apply to conspiracy paranoias.

Hence I detest the term. "Questioner" would be the description I'd choose for myself!

And don't you just love how the little known and strange collapse of World Trade Centre Building 7 later in the day... is not even mentioned in the 9/11 Report!

WTC7 had been on fire all day...

Conspiracy Theories pertaining to the 9/11 bombings have been created by the US Government. This leads the masses to think that the authorities are powerful and capable of anything....instead of an incompetent, bureaucratic dumbfuck organisation who could allow a handfull of terrorists to hijack three planes and level three of the most important buildings in the US.

Courtesy of South Park

markfiend wrote:WTC7 had been on fire all day...

Come on Mark! I'm no "no planes hit the Twin Towers" guy mate! If there's a single thing that's not right about that day it's WT7.

Not you at all but I feel this thread will become a joke, can I pull it!?

Seriously re the last point, I should've titled the post differently maybe. Please pull this post if you will Quiffy/Fiendy. It's not for here obviously.

Ta lads.

Best 9/11 related thing I've seen lately:
http://www.corbettreport.com/911-a-conspiracy-theory/

OK locking the thread as per request from Purple Light