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Rain From Heaven
Posted: 18 Aug 2013, 22:24
by bangles
I'm not familar with the play - but came across this randomly today & wondered is there an acknowledge connection/ inspiration?
From the Merchant of Venice by Shakey...
"The quality of mercy is not strained
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest;
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:
'T is mightiest in the mightiest; it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown:
His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty,
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
But mercy is above this sceptered sway;
It is enthroned in the hearts of kings,
It is an attribute to God himself;
And earthly power doth then show likest God's
When mercy seasons justice.
Therefore, Jew, Though justice be thy plea, consider this,
That, in the course of justice, none of us
Should see salvation: we do pray for mercy;
And that same prayer doth teach us all to render The deeds of mercy.
I have spoke thus much
To mitigate the justice of thy plea;
Which if thou follow, this strict court of Venice
Must needs give sentence 'gainst the merchant there."
I found an interpretation of it which contextualize it as Where Portia argues that Shylock should show Mercy in his dealings with Antonio, although she shows little herself with Shylock. It's tempting to find some raison d'etre subtext around the whole Sisterhood or am I just over tired!
Posted: 18 Aug 2013, 22:40
by centurionofprix
It's also in Genesis 8:2, to which I guess Shakespeare was in turn alluding, and Eldritch himself is known to love the King James bible. I think that's as likely a source as
The Merchant of Venice, especially so considering the "as we walk on the floodland" bit and the development of the Flood metaphor on the next album.
1 And God remembred Noah, and euery liuing thing, and all the cattell that was with him in the Arke: and God made a winde to passe ouer the earth, and the waters asswaged.
2 The fountaines also of the deepe, and the windowes of heauen were stopped, and the raine from heauen was restrained.
3 And the waters returned from off the earth, continually: and after the end of the hundred and fiftie dayes, the waters were abated.
4 And the Arke rested in the seuenth moneth, on the seuenteenth day of the moneth, vpon the mountaines of Ararat.
5 And the waters decreased continually vntill the tenth moneth: in the tenth moneth, on the first day of the moneth, were the tops of the mountaines seene.
6 ¶ And it came to passe at the end of forty dayes, that Noah opened the window of the Arke which he had made.
7 And he sent forth a Rauen, which went foorth to and fro, vntill the waters were dried vp from off the earth.
8 Also hee sent foorth a doue from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground.
9 But the doue found no rest for the sole of her foote, and she returned vnto him into the Arke: for the waters were on the face of the whole earth. Then he put foorth his hand, and tooke her, and pulled her in vnto him, into the Arke.
10 And hee stayed yet other seuen dayes; and againe hee sent foorth the doue out of the Arke.
11 And the doue came in to him in the euening, and loe, in her mouth was an Oliue leafe pluckt off: So Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.
Posted: 18 Aug 2013, 22:52
by million voices
I thought it was about showing mercy or lack of
You only forgive as you forget - which is rather a cynical if true viewpoint
Better to forgive and show mercy so that the "gentle rain" becomes a floodland
Posted: 19 Aug 2013, 14:03
by stufarq
The theme of mercy would fit more with The Merchant of Venice than with Genesis.
Posted: 19 Aug 2013, 19:43
by million voices
..... unless he is alluding to Genesis the band. The singer split from the band. The rest of the band were crap without the singer. There was a lot of ill feeling.
There are a many similarities
Posted: 19 Aug 2013, 19:50
by iesus
... or partly almost all of the above blend with some more
Posted: 27 Aug 2013, 01:50
by H. Blackrose
million voices wrote:..... unless he is alluding to Genesis the band. The singer split from the band. The rest of the band were crap without the singer. There was a lot of ill feeling.
The last sentence is just wrong. Gabriel and the Collins-Genesis remained friends. They played a reunion gig in 1982 and did a reunion track for a "best of" in 1999. Nothing like the Sisters/Mish war.
Posted: 27 Aug 2013, 12:14
by Being645
million voices wrote:I thought it was about showing mercy or lack of
You only forgive as you forget - which is rather a cynical if true viewpoint
Better to forgive and show mercy so that the "gentle rain" becomes a floodland
Absolutely, there is no forgetting without forgiving (always also oneself).
In addition, certain things should be forgiven but never forgotten,
because it's NOT some "rain from heaven" but human decision and action, rather, that cause the need and necessity of forgiving.
Also, some casual demand to forgive and forget does regularly come from those who committed whatever atrocities thus degrading the victim again.
Turning it to the contrary as in
We forgive as we forget doesn't change a thing. To me it seems a more or less helpless attempt to keep up the memory
and be not manipulated into agreement with the offence and the offender.
The concept of "forgive and forget" is just wrong, when used in this unfortunately quite common cursory way.
However,
as we walk on the floodland, i.e. when the water (the worst) is gone, we tend to forget ... anyway, mostly. But not for very long.
Posted: 27 Aug 2013, 20:42
by million voices
Just because they haven't acted like spoilt brats but like adults
But OK maybe "a lot of ill feeling" is a bit strong but the other boys were certainly a tad miffed when Gabriel decided to knock it on the head.
Posted: 28 Aug 2013, 14:35
by stufarq
million voices wrote:Just because they haven't acted like spoilt brats but like adults
But OK maybe "a lot of ill feeling" is a bit strong but the other boys were certainly a tad miffed when Gabriel decided to knock it on the head.
They split over a number of arguments and then got past it and remained friends. But it's a pretty tenuous link - a quote from the book of Genesis is actually a reference to Peter Gabriel leaving the band Genesis?
Posted: 03 Sep 2013, 20:00
by million voices
Apologies for late reply, I've been away
As we all know and appreciate one of the many joys of Eldo's lyrics is the multiplicity of meanings - the double (at least) entendres - he could be described as of the Frankie Howerd songwriting school.
I was merely putting forward Genesis (the band) as one of those layers of possibility.
Posted: 04 Sep 2013, 15:50
by stufarq
million voices wrote:he could be described as of the Frankie Howerd songwriting school.
I'll be listening to all those songs in a very different way now. "How do you think it came to pass" indeed.