Heartland

I've only seen the Sisters in their current incarnation, 4 times. This might play a role in my perception of the live sound. I can only compare to other bands I've seen live, and recordings of old Sisters shows, which can sound drastically different to how it's heard by the live audience.

I only remember Ben Christo bringing a bass guitar on stage for a song or two at Lokerse Feesten 2010, which I really enjoyed.

Playing guitar and bass myself, I often enjoy playing some songs along to the records, and it just seems to me that the bass is such a huge part of the sound, that it deserves a live bass player. If I didn't know the Sisters, but just heard some of the popular and bass heavy songs and was asked "Could this band work without a bass player?", I'd say no.

Of course, they do have bass on the iMac/Dr Avalanche running the Logic sequencer thingy, but last gig (AB last May in Brussels) I really tried to find the bass in the sound, but it seems to be really "minimal". I suspect this is to avoid looking like they're playing to a huge backing track. It would be weird to hear a bass player in the mix like it does on the records, but not seeing one.

However, I really think the music deserves a live bass player. I'm not saying they should change their sound "to sound like they used to, also get some top hats and black hair dye" , they can do whatever they like. The more modernized version is fine, they have the money for Marshall stacks and proper equipment (BC's glam/heavy metal background might have to do a thing or two with the sound as well I guess), they don't have to call around to borrow a "guitar with a whammy thing" anymore. I enjoy the shows. But it seems to me that a live bass player that is a bit louder in the mix would really give them a lot more punch.

I wonder what the reasoning for not having a bass player is. Surely there are some bass players in England who aren't either a Sisters stalker or a show-off-can't-stick-to-the-same-riff-for-10-seconds-guy.

Now for the Doktor. The actual drum sounds are good, snare might be on the sharp side, but nothing to complain. The iMac version is just so much easier to work with than any Boss TR808 or any Dos sequencing I suppose.

But sometimes, they add various synth sounds, which are too loud in the mix and really annoy me and sound way too plastic. (From the AB show, around the two minute mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfOFa2Or6wU) Type O Negative used to have their synth way too loud in the mix as well.

Do the various synth effects annoy anyone else or is it just me? And I really try not to complain too much, I genuinely enjoy the shows . No need to get into the vocals. This has been discussed enough, everywhere, all the time. I like the backing vocals, Eldritch can make it work, done.

I would speculate that it's

1. one less person to involve in the group dynamic
2. easier to mix on bad days/in poor venues because the Doktor doesn't mind being turned down (he gets to play the drums, after all).

we've been through this not long time ago

centurionofprix wrote: 1. one less person to involve in the group dynamic

There's a dynamic?

One less person to pay

VonII wrote: I only remember Ben Christo bringing a bass guitar on stage for a song or two at Lokerse Feesten 2010, which I really enjoyed.

Playing guitar and bass myself, I often enjoy playing some songs along to the records, and it just seems to me that the bass is such a huge part of the sound, that it deserves a live bass player. [/size]

Totally agree on this point, as well as all the others you made.

Hearing "Romeo Down" live with the real bass is just a joy, it dramatically adds to the dynamic of the sound.

Any opinions on the sound effects / synth stuff?

centurionofprix wrote:I would speculate that it's

1. one less person to involve in the group dynamic
2. easier to mix on bad days/in poor venues because the Doktor doesn't mind being turned down (he gets to play the drums, after all).

1. Mh maybe. But would really knowingly give up so much of the sound for some money? I'd like to believe it was more part of his vision for a new sound at the time, or something like that. I blame my young age for my disbelief that is just in it for the money nowadays, or something in between that and still having some artistic visions.
2. I doubt that VERY much. I have been at a lot of poor venues with a few bands, a lot of times even without PA, and it's almost always possible to make it work even in the worst conditions (live drums, 1-2 guitars, bass, vocals on a tiny vocals-only PA setup). The venues the girls play in have sound capabilities and technicians I can only dream of working with. Even the worst venue they played in the last 15 years would still work with live bass perfectly fine.

Bartek wrote:we've been through this not long time ago

Sorry, didn't read the Prague thread before posting this, did try to do a search on the forum, but nothing concrete came up. But maybe it's better to have such a discussion in a separate thread like this?..

million voices wrote:One less person to pay

Sigh... I guess... Like someone in the Prague thread said, the bass lines are quite simple easy to reproduce digitally. Which they apparently found worth losing some live power for.

Yggdrasil wrote:

VonII wrote: I only remember Ben Christo bringing a bass guitar on stage for a song or two at Lokerse Feesten 2010, which I really enjoyed.

Playing guitar and bass myself, I often enjoy playing some songs along to the records, and it just seems to me that the bass is such a huge part of the sound, that it deserves a live bass player. [/size]

Totally agree on this point, as well as all the others you made.

Hearing "Romeo Down" live with the real bass is just a joy, it dramatically adds to the dynamic of the sound.

Thanks .

I agree as well.

that wasn't attack on thread, that point out where are few pros and cons

I like the synths, for me they go really well with the guitars to form a sparkly industrial soundscape.

VonII wrote: 1. Mh maybe. But would really knowingly give up so much of the sound for some money? I'd like to believe it was more part of his vision for a new sound at the time, or something like that. I blame my young age for my disbelief that is just in it for the money nowadays, or something in between that and still having some artistic visions.

I don't think it is as much about money as it is about having to deal with one less person in the inner circle of the band. Eldritch appears to be a fairly withdrawn person and inclined not to keep lots of people around.

But this is still utterly speculative on my part, maybe I read him all wrong.

2. I doubt that VERY much. I have been at a lot of poor venues with a few bands, a lot of times even without PA, and it's almost always possible to make it work even in the worst conditions (live drums, 1-2 guitars, bass, vocals on a tiny vocals-only PA setup). The venues the girls play in have sound capabilities and technicians I can only dream of working with. Even the worst venue they played in the last 15 years would still work with live bass perfectly fine.

In their case, it often doesn't work perfectly fine even without live bass. It sounds good recently, but their struggle with getting Von's voice through the mix is well documented; apparently he sings very quietly nowadays. Since he and the bass share the low end of the mix, being able to turn down the bass without frustrating a human player seems to me like it could be part of the reasoning.

centurionofprix wrote:I like the synths, for me they go really well with the guitars to form a sparkly industrial soundscape.

Oh well, I thought people would be divided on the matter, but for me, it would be fine if they'd put it lower in the mix. But the way I've heard it the last few years... doesn't work for me.

centurionofprix wrote: I don't think it is as much about money as it is about having to deal with one less person in the inner circle of the band. Eldritch appears to be a fairly withdrawn person and inclined not to keep lots of people around.

But this is still utterly speculative on my part, maybe I read him all wrong.

Might be true, but seeing how well Ben and Chris get along with , there wouldn't be that much of a problem getting a third person involved it seems to me. It would add so much to the live sound! I'm sure there is a person fit for the job in England. If not, maybe Hamburg.

centurionofprix wrote: In their case, it often doesn't work perfectly fine even without live bass. It sounds good recently, but their struggle with getting Von's voice through the mix is well documented; apparently he sings very quietly nowadays. Since he and the bass share the low end of the mix, being able to turn down the bass without frustrating a human player seems to me like it could be part of the reasoning.

Mhm, I hadn't considered this. I sing quite low and quietly myself (Not on purpose being a huge Sisters fan and a Type O fan, it's just how my voice sounds, and being almost 2m meters tall..), but I never found it to be a problem to mix it well. Maybe he sings REALLY quiet. But on the other hand, there has been NO rumour what so ever that ever tried working with a bassist. Which is what they at least would have done if they still wanted to try a bassist. I'm convinced that it's rather a personal decision than a technical decision. Or it just never happened, like new material. It just doesn't happen, despite Ben and Chris wanting it badly, and maybe on a good day Uncle Eldo as well, but it just doesn't happen.

centurionofprix wrote: he sings very quietly nowadays.

It’s interesting because I think he was not at all quiet in this tour. In the gigs I saw his voice was definitely strong and nice (fortunately it was also recorded for the posterity). I also saw and listened to the gigs I personally could not be present at – thanks for those who recorded them – he was not quiet at those ones either. It may be a kind of older automatic response attached to him, that he is quiet… though he sang outstandingly well in comparison to the past few years.

Joy wrote:It’s interesting because I think he was not at all quiet in this tour.

Exactly. His voice has actually been noticeably improving since Leamington Spa in 2010 - it no longer seems correct to say that his voice is quiet these days.

Or they could just get Ben to play bass permanently: I wouldn't miss the widdly guitar solos, and they have managed fine with one guitar in the past...

Jeremiah wrote:Or they could just get Ben to play bass permanently:

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

markfiend wrote:

Jeremiah wrote:Or they could just get Ben to play bass permanently:

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

sisters newsletter

markfiend wrote:

Jeremiah wrote:Or they could just get Ben to play bass permanently:

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

+1.

Jeremiah wrote:Or they could just get Ben to play bass permanently: I wouldn't miss the widdly guitar solos, and they have managed fine with one guitar in the past...

Nnoo, I would miss Ben's playing, and in any case the phat Sisters riffing requires two guitars, especially given the post-VT hard rock vibe.

It was a bit feeble with Hussey alone as well, IMO.

Joy wrote:It’s interesting because I think he was not at all quiet in this tour.

mh wrote:Exactly. His voice has actually been noticeably improving since Leamington Spa in 2010 - it no longer seems correct to say that his voice is quiet these days.

I think he does still sing very quietly - even on this tour, his voice was often on the verge of disappearing into the general howl, and it wasn't by choice that they didn't turn him up.* I don't mean his singing quietly is a problem, however, unless for the amplification system. People can sing any way they like; I brought it up as a reason as to why they perhaps choose not to keep a bass player, not as a criticism. I think the singing's better than ever, FWIW, and it is true that he has been more audible recently, but making it so quite clearly remains a challenge for the sound guy/girl.

*Which not to mention that he is still louder when he talks between songs than he is during songs.

Does anyone honestly think he's had any vocal coaching or done anything to strengthen his voice since the 90-91 tour?

He's not sitting backstage practising his scales before the show, he's out the back with 20 Marlboro Lights..

czuczu wrote: Does anyone honestly think he's had any vocal coaching or done anything to strengthen his voice since the 90-91 tour?

He has certainly done as much as smoking the light version, not the red one.

If you compare Blood Money from the 97 tour and the one they do now, the difference is pretty obvious. He can do it, but not all the time or so it seems.
Also, in previous tours there were always moments when he blew me away with just his voice. During Falaa, Ribbons and songs like that he could really keep the mic at a distance and make one heck of a noise. Goosebumps!
But his growling during Valentine on the recent Glasgow recording, now that is also something else. Nobody else can sing like that imo and he does it to great effect. Goosebumps all the same


Hmmm, it's about time for another couple of gigs if you ask me


Oh yeah, a human bassplayer would be the thing. It's more than 20 years already they haven't got a permanent one

radiojamaica wrote:Hmmm, it's about time for another couple of gigs if you ask me

radiojamaica wrote:Oh yeah, a human bassplayer would be the thing. It's more than 20 years already they haven't got a permanent one

20 years X cash per tour not spent on bassplayer = a lot of tins of catfood

If I remember correctly Patricia Morrison didn't get paid either lol!!!