Heartland

I thought I'd start a thread off about today's referendum since I couldn't find an existing one. I'm sure you all have something to say on the matter.

Some weeks ago I was leaning towards hoping that Scotland would vote “no� and stay in the UK, but that I’m English so it’s not my decision.

Now I’m leaning towards hoping that Scotland will vote “yes� to independence, but that I’m still English so it’s still not my decision.

My father is Scottish so I would apparently have an option on citizenship although that doesn't entitle me to have a vote...

I find the whole thing just bizarre, there are better and more important arguments to be had about democracy and representation than Scottish independence. I'm expecting a 'no' result but, as a civil servant, I find the prospect of a 'yes' result a nightmare of endless bureacracy with very little benefit.

czuczu wrote:My father is Scottish so I would apparently have an option on citizenship although that doesn't entitle me to have a vote...

I find the whole thing just bizarre, there are better and more important arguments to be had about democracy and representation than Scottish independence. I'm expecting a 'no' result but, as a civil servant, I find the prospect of a 'yes' result a nightmare of endless bureacracy with very little benefit.

One of the things that changed my opinion over the past few weeks from "no" to "yes" was that I think independence for Scotland will actually trigger a transformation in democracy and representation, with devolution of some state power to the English regions being almost inevitable, and a move towards more representative and inclusive forms of democracy. So long as the demands are loud enough.

Obviously this will be fought against by the main political parties, unless Milliband changes tack after a potential "yes" vote in the face of new reality, which I think he's smart enough to do - Labour have been pushing for regional assemblies for years, so I don't think it's a hope too far.

According to this Irish site http://www.theliberal.ie/shock-yes-vote ... xit-polls/ exits polls looks like Aye is ahead at the moment

lazarus corporation wrote:

czuczu wrote:My father is Scottish so I would apparently have an option on citizenship although that doesn't entitle me to have a vote...

I find the whole thing just bizarre, there are better and more important arguments to be had about democracy and representation than Scottish independence. I'm expecting a 'no' result but, as a civil servant, I find the prospect of a 'yes' result a nightmare of endless bureacracy with very little benefit.

One of the things that changed my opinion over the past few weeks from "no" to "yes" was that I think independence for Scotland will actually trigger a transformation in democracy and representation, with devolution of some state power to the English regions being almost inevitable, and a move towards more representative and inclusive forms of democracy. So long as the demands are loud enough.

Obviously this will be fought against by the main political parties, unless Milliband changes tack after a potential "yes" vote in the face of new reality, which I think he's smart enough to do - Labour have been pushing for regional assemblies for years, so I don't think it's a hope too far.

That's the leap I can't make - if Scotland were to become independent then its unlikely to be the first domino towards some kind of Icelandic-style utopia. There's far too much vested interest in the status quo

Gutted at the no vote. Why do people vote against their own best interests?

Tories are already backing down about the devo-plus promises. Surprise fcuking surprise.

We have just come back home from Scotland.... in the space of a month or two it seemed to vacillate from aye to nay back and forth...
As someone with a very scottish surname I wanted* to see an independant Scotland, but thought the status quo would remain, now I am just confused.

After a month of almost constant bagpipe music I started to change my mind....

i have come across a fair amount of colleagues and others who were concerned that the english didnt get to vote..."why should Scotland be allowed to leave the uk"...

maybe people from outside the uk will now recognise that the uk is made up of three countries and a province and not divided into different bits of england

As a Welshboy I followed it all quite closely.....and had miixed feelings about the result. At first disappointment but then tinged with relief.

I'm still trying to come to terms with my 'tinge of relief'....i feel like a traitor.

Being a resident of that little piece of harmony in the north of Ireland i was following the debate with interest. I was hoping for a Yes vote but democracy is democracy and they voted for the devil you know I figure. At least they saved England and Wales from perpetual Tory/UKIP rule. Though am not sure what the whole things says about Labour. Of course if the promises to Scotland are watered down there will be eventually another referendum and this time the vote will be yes.

abridged wrote:At least they saved England and Wales from perpetual Tory/UKIP rule.

That's not actually the case. General Elections since WWII wouldn't have gone much differently without Scotland:
http://commonslibraryblog.com/2014/01/3 ... 1945-2010/

markfiend wrote:

abridged wrote:At least they saved England and Wales from perpetual Tory/UKIP rule.

That's not actually the case. General Elections since WWII wouldn't have gone much differently without Scotland:
http://commonslibraryblog.com/2014/01/3 ... 1945-2010/

Ah I stand corrected. In that case there isn't even that upside. But I do notice that there's a demand for back-tracking on the promises of more powers for Scotland already from Boris et al. On a tangent since we're all spiritually citizens of West Yorkshire maybe we should launch an independence campaign. We already have the t-shirts!

Sad day, sad to see people choose slavery...
And this sounds like a non victory for the No option.
There is no victory with 50.01 and 49.99 result
Also it would be interesting to know what those who actually live in Scotland vote and what those who send vote with mail vote. I have a natural distrustful for post offices and voting process.

nigel d wrote:maybe people from outside the uk will now recognise that the uk is made up of three countries and a province and not divided into different bits of england

I doubt it. I work for a large American company and we have a regular flow of company graduates passing through our office on placement. England/UK is one-and-the-same to them :-s

Norman Hunter wrote:

nigel d wrote:maybe people from outside the uk will now recognise that the uk is made up of three countries and a province and not divided into different bits of england

I doubt it. I work for a large American company and we have a regular flow of company graduates passing through our office on placement. England/UK is one-and-the-same to them :-s

Yep! and in the eyes of 55% of Scots, Scotland is just a region of the UK, very disappointed/ embarrassed this morning .
At least no one died.
Nothing much else to say about it, I'll change my avatar when I'm a bit more chirpy.

Pat wrote: Yep! and in the eyes of 55% of Scots, Scotland is just a region of the UK, very disappointed/ embarrassed this morning .
At least no one died.
Nothing much else to say about it, I'll change my avatar when I'm a bit more chirpy.

I wouldn't be embarrassed.
At least a vast proportion of the population actually got off their erses to vote.
What was the last general election turnout? 65%?
& the European one recently? Less than 50 wasn't it?
At least a huge number of Scots realise that voting is "a thing" .

iesus wrote:There is no victory with 50.01 and 49.99 result

It's not even that close. 5 NO votes for every 4 YES.

Pista wrote:

Pat wrote: Yep! and in the eyes of 55% of Scots, Scotland is just a region of the UK, very disappointed/ embarrassed this morning .
At least no one died.
Nothing much else to say about it, I'll change my avatar when I'm a bit more chirpy.

I wouldn't be embarrassed.
At least a vast proportion of the population actually got off their erses to vote.
What was the last general election turnout? 65%?
& the European one recently? Less than 50 wasn't it?
At least a huge number of Scots realise that voting is "a thing" .

i totally agree. as an englishman without a vote and an undecided opinion (to be honest i wasn't overly convinced politically, but socially i would have been sorry to lose our scottish brothers and sisters) i think you have to be proud of the massive turn out and general passion and participation by the electorate.

markfiend wrote:

iesus wrote:There is no victory with 50.01 and 49.99 result

It's not even that close. 5 NO votes for every 4 YES.

Unless you believe the missing airplane news network

iesus wrote: Also it would be interesting to know what those who actually live in Scotland vote and what those who send vote with mail vote. I have a natural distrustful for post offices and voting process.

You've misunderstood. Everyone who voted lives in Scotland and no-one living outside of Scotland was eligible to vote. Postal votes are for those either unable to get to polling stations on polling day (eg abroad, working etc) or simply those who prefer to vote that way. Anyone eligible to vote can register for a postal vote if they choose.

Also, they haven't actually voted for slavery!

Indeed, they didn't none mentioned that before people go to vote. And if someone dare to put it that way many many many English settlers of x-Scotland would shot him as example of freedom of speech. Everyone said how disappointing it will be if people prefer to vote for their freedom and independence, how bad the "markets" will react in case that someone feel more Scotish than English, the four horsemen of the Apocalypse send fax that they will arrive in all tv stations around the Globe etc.
No offense from those that vote the one choice or the other but this vote was not equal in treatment. It was obvious and most didn't say anything before the end of it so it could not be as taking sides and involvement in that vote.

A victory for fear over hope. From this table of how people voted ,the pension scare story had the desired effect , most no voters also admitting they were worried about which currency iScotland would use (which was another scare story , it was always going to be the £)

the most encouraging stats are the 16-17 years of age , many now asking why they can't vote in the upcoming election next year.
Also sad to find out that instead of the man who's privatising the NHS stepping down, it's the one championing free universal healthcare. Sad day indeed.

and now it seems that the vow made by westminster isn't going to go ahead according to the timeline given, and something else is going to be tied in with it.
a vow can't be altered to suit in this way.