Heartland

Hi guys,

This is my first post so first I wanted to say how great it has been to follow this board for many years now… I learned a lot and I got ahold of some great recordings thanks to the members generosity.

I am posting here a very long post (sorry, hope that’s ok!) about a pet project of mine which is to create my own “CRITERION� edition of the SOM discography, with the goal to include every version of every SOM song. Hopefully this will be of interest to other obsessive collectors…

I am starting by the end of the discography, with all the songs from 1990-1993. I am aware that most of the info below is already available in various places (including this venerable board, the very comprehensive SOM Database or Discogs). However, I found that no source is either completely comprehensive nor (as far as the SOM DB and discogs are concerned) fully accurate. Hence, my effort below to clean up and consolidate and come up with a definite list.

I would much appreciate if any of you can help improve this list or make it more accurate. I am especially interested to know if I am missing any version and/or any versions listed separately here are actually the same mixes under different designations or with slight variations in RTs.

The 90-93 list below is the first part. If there is interest, I will share the next part (Floodland Era) soon. If I manage to go through the whole official discography, I might endeavor to tackle demos and outtakes but we’ll see if I live long enough for this and/or there is support/interest from the board for such an endeavor which will take a lot of resources.

Thank you for reading. I look forward to your feedback!

GENERAL COMMENTS

1) For the list below, I am only listing the *new* songs from the 1990-1993 era so versions of older songs released during the era don’t appear here (ex: Burn Live Bootleg from Doctor Jeep isn’t listed here) and will be listed in the next sections under their respective eras. The exceptions here are Alice 1993 and TOL 1992 which I am treating as new songs.

2) I am assuming there is only one LP version of the songs from Vision Thing (as far as mixes and/or running times are concerned), and therefore no noticeable difference between all the different regional releases or reissues of Vision Thing (except for the 2006 remaster). I’m very interested to find out if this is true or if different versions of the LP tracks from VT exist…

3) As for the 2006 remastered issue of Vision Thing, I am assuming the extra tracks were also remastered, but can anyone confirm this?

4) I am treating the audio mixes/edits from the videos as separate versions but, at least in some cases, they might be the same mix/edit as other non-video tracks listed. If anyone can offer their thoughts on which video mixes are unique, and which are actually other released mixes, that would be great!

Now, without further due:

SOM SONG VERSION TRACKER PART 1: 1990-1993 v1.0 Jan 2016

—Legend—
[R] remaster (2006)
[A] version used on ASCOO
[*] suspected duplicate of another version also listed (see notes)
[V] only available on vinyl

# - SONG - RT - VERSION - SOURCE - DATE

01.Alice_1993–03:57–Remixed_1993—UTG_Single_(1993)

02.Det_Blvd—03:49—LP_version—Vision_Thing_(1990)
03.Det_Blvd—03:49—LP_version[R]—VT_Remastered_(2006)
04.Det_Blvd—03:48—Remix—Det_Blvd_CD_Promo_(1991)_[A]
05.Det_Blvd—03:53—Video_edit—Shot_Rev_2.0_(1993)

06.Dr_Jeep—04:15–-7�_version—Dr_Jeep_7�_Single_(1991)_[V]
07.Dr_Jeep—08:59—Extended—Dr_Jeep_Single_(1991)
08.Dr_Jeep—08:59—Extended[R]—VT_Remastered_(2006)
09.Dr_Jeep—04:39—LP_version—Vision_Thing_(1990)
10.Dr_Jeep—04:41—LP_version[R]—VT_Remastered_2006)
11.Dr_Jeep—03:03—Radio_Edit—Dr_Jeep_Single_(1991)_[A]
12.Dr_Jeep—03:15—Video_edit—Shot_Rev_2.0_(1993)

13.I_Was_Wrong—03:12—American_Fade—TOL_92_Single_(1992)
14.I_Was_Wrong—06:03—LP_version—Vision_Thing_(1990)
15.I_Was_Wrong—06:11—LP_version[R]—VT_Remastered_(2006)

16.More—04:37—7�_version—More_Single_(1990)
17.More—08:30—Extended—More_Single_(1990)
18.More—08:22—LP_version—Vision_Thing_(1990)_[A]
19.More—08:22—LP_version[R]—VT_Remastered_(2006)
20.More—04:44—Radio_Edit—More_90_CD_Promo_(1990)_[*]
21.More—06:24—Video_edit—Shot_Rev_2.0_(1993)

22.More_1993—10:53—Groove_Mix—More_93_CD_Promo_(1993)
23.More_1993—10:53—Power_Mix—More_93_CD_Promo_(1993)
24.More_1993—03:02—Power_Mix_(Radio Edit)—More_93_CD_Promo_(1993)

25.Ribbons—04:26—Live_Hambourg_17.11.90—WYDSM_Single_(1991)
26.Ribbons—04:25—Live_Hambourg_17.11.90[R]—VT_Remastered_(2006)
27.Ribbons—05:25—LP_version—Vision_Thing_(1990)
28.Ribbons—05:28—LP_version[R]—VT_Remastered_(2006)

29.Stg_Fast—03:02—Live_Hambourg_17.11.90—WYDSM_Single_(1991)
30.Stg_Fast—03:02—Live_Hambourg_17.11.90[R]—VT_Remastered_(2006)
31.Stg_Fast—04:36—LP_version—Vision_Thing_(1990)
32.Stg_Fast—04:31—LP_version[R]—VT_Remastered_(2006)

33.TOL_1992—04:40—7�_version—TOL_92_7�_Single/CD_Promo_(1992)
34.TOL_1992—08:05—Extended—TOL_92_Single_(1992)_[A]
35.TOL_1992—03:06—Video_edit—Shot_Rev_2.0_(1993)

36.UTG—6:16—7�_version—UTG_7�_Sgl/CD_Promo_(1993)_[*]
37.UTG—5:41—ASCOO_version—ASCOO_(1993)_[A]
38.UTG—4:02—DJ_Edit—UTG_Promo_(1993)
39.UTG—6:20—Jutland_Mix—UTG_Single_(1993)
40.UTG—6:16—Metropolis_Mix—UTG_Single_(1993)
41.UTG—4:04—Single_Edit—Bravo Hits Vol. 5_(1993)_[*]
42.UTG—4:10—Video_edit—Shot_Rev_2.0_(1993)

43.Vision_Thing—7:32—Canadian_Club_Remix—TOL_92_Single_(1992)_[A]
44.Vision_Thing—4:36—LP_version—Vision_Thing_(1990)
45.Vision_Thing—4:35—LP_version[R]—VT_Remastered_(2006)
46.Vision_Thing—?:??—Remix—VT_Remix_12�_Promo_(1991)_[*]

47.WYDSM—4:51—LP_version—Vision_Thing_(1990)
48.WYDSM—4:54—LP_version[R]—VT_Remastered_(2006)
49.WYDSM—4:46—Remix/German_Release—WYDSM_Single_(1991)
50.WYDSM—4:43—Remix/German_Release[R]—VT_Remastered_(2006)
51.WYDSM—4:21—Remix/German_Release_(edit)—WYDSM_CD_Promo_(1991)

52.YCBTO—3:59—7�_version—More_Single_(1990)
53.YCBTO—4:01—7�_version[R]—VT_Remastered_(2006)

—Questions—
20. More — Radio Edit same as 7� version?
36. UTG — 7� version same as Metropolis Mix?
41. UTG — Single Edit same as DJ Edit?
45. Vision Thing (song) — US 12� promo Remix same as Canadian Club Remix?

Nice first post. Any objection if this this send to the Resources subforum? More likely to get use there and less likely to fade down the pages.

Thank you and no objection !

The answer to all of your questions is Yes.

Alice is a re-recording, not a remix.

When you say "version", I assume you are referring to the mixes of the tracks. There are, of course, mastering variations between the USA and European CDs of the following 90-93 titles:

Vision Thing
A Slight Case of Overbombing
Some Girls Wander By Mistake.

In the case of the two compilations, IIRC, the difference is merely one of volume level. The USA pressings are a hair quieter than the German, and thus avoid any peak clipping. With Vision Thing, the USA and German masterings are totally different. The German is colder/harder, whilst the USA has a fuller low end (this is my go-to pressing). The German CD also has its track flags in the wrong place for Ribbons / Detonation Boulevard, hence the timing discrepancies.

There are two pressings of the 2006 remaster. One has glitches during the live tracks. The mastering is identical for both apart from the glitches being fixed.

49.WYDSM—4:46—Remix/German_Release—WYDSM_Single_(1991)

51.WYDSM—4:21—Remix/German_Release_(edit)—WYDSM_CD_Promo_(1991)


Do they sound different, or is the edit just an early fade?
I've been looking for a well mastered WYDSM remix. It always sounds so harsh.

Welcome, @Elon. It looks like you have a new playmate, @robertzombie!

@robertzombie, thank you so much for the clarifications, much appreciated!

re WYDSM Remix, as far as i can tell, there is no difference between the two mixes, the edit is just faded earlier.

i have a few more nerdy questions, extra help appreciated

1) video mixes

re the mixes used on the videos, which ones are exclusive mixes and/or edits vs. using an existing mix? from what i can tell:

Det Blvd: same mix as LP version
Dr Jeep: same mix as DJ Edit, but with additional distortion at the beginning
More: exclusive 6’24 video edit
TOL: exclusive 3’06 video edit
UTG: same mix as DJ Edit

Is the above correct?

2) More LP version vs More Extended vs More ASCOO version

I can’t hear a difference between the LP version, the extended version from the CDS and the ASCOO version… are these three mixes which are all approx 8'25 the same?

3) browsing through some misc mp3, I came across an edit of TOL 1992 which is 4’13

it starts exactly like the extended mix (i.e. straight with the instruments, not with OH acapella like the single edit) but around the 3:52 mark, on the lyrics “it’s falling down�, the beat stops and the music fades nicely, whereas in the extended version, the beat continues over the break and the instruments kicks back in shortly after

this edit sounds legit to me, but i have no idea from what release or from where this version is from… any idea?

many thanks for the help!

There's a legit 4:40 edit: http://www.discogs.com/Sisters-Of-Mercy ... se/1835084

Vision Thing Remixes #43 + 46 are the same. I asked one of the chaps who contributed to the discogs entry to clarify (he actually dubbed the vinyl for me). I compared them in Audacity and they were the same. The album version is an early fade of the so-called 'Remix' too. So actually there's one version, and it's edit.

You gotta be a manic fan to want to discuss another version of TOL '92 , but one can make the edit you describe in Audacity. I just did so. That's all Eldritch did for most of the single variants anway, is edit.

The pattern emerged during Floodland's promotional cycle, and was repeated with less success for Vision Thing. There were no actual remixes done at all.

Tracks that were merely edited on either their single or album release are: This Corrosion, Colours, Sandstorm, Driven like the Snow, More, Vision Thing, Doctor Jeep, I was Wrong.

Tracks that were actually remixed are fewer.
Dominion 7" & 12" had some additional bits
Lucretia 7" & 12" had some additional production
When You Don't See Me & Detonation Blvd are remixes, but the versions stem from rejected album takes rather than subsequent/additional production on the tracks once they had been chosen for promotion in the USA. (Or so I've come to understand)

very very helpful @Gaijin thank you!

re More, following what you are saying, are there more than three actual edits of the original mix ?

from what I can tell listening to my s**t computer audio, there are only three versions (same mix but different lengths):
1. a short edit (4:40) --> 7" version = CDS "edit" = Promo CD "radio edit"
2. an extended/LP edit (8:25) -->CDS "extended" version = VT LP version = ASCOOB version
3. a video edit (6'24)

is that correct? Im not 100% sure about that extended edit. could be a unique edit different from the LP/ASCOOB version as the length is a bit longer and the mastering sounds different...

Have you looked at under the knife?

Elon wrote:very very helpful @Gaijin thank you!

re More, following what you are saying, are there more than three actual edits of the original mix ?

from what I can tell listening to my s**t computer audio, there are only three versions (same mix but different lengths):
1. a short edit (4:40) --> 7" version = CDS "edit" = Promo CD "radio edit"
2. an extended/LP edit (8:25) -->CDS "extended" version = VT LP version = ASCOOB version
3. a video edit (6'24)

is that correct? Im not 100% sure about that extended edit. could be a unique edit different from the LP/ASCOOB version as the length is a bit longer and the mastering sounds different...

Same mix but, yes, the masterings are naturally different.

@paint it black, unfortunately I don't have a copy of Under The Knife. Would love to get one though, it seems quite relevant to my project.

@robertzombie : so the More Extended version from the single is the same mix and the same edit as the LP and ASCOOB versions, just a different mastering?

Elon wrote:@paint it black, unfortunately I don't have a copy of Under The Knife. Would love to get one though, it seems quite relevant to my project.

@robertzombie : so the More Extended version from the single is the same mix and the same edit as the LP and ASCOOB versions, just a different mastering?

I personally have never noticed any mix differences between the various ~8:25 versions. From the research I've done, with the exception of Floodland, all/most Sisters CDs have unique masterings for their part of the world.

Thanks to all your help and some additional diggings, I think i am close to finalizing the list of all the different versions of songs from the 1990-1993

Highlights from my research:

a) There are at least two versions of the short version of More: even though they have almost the same lengths, the 7" and the CDS versions are slightly different, the backing vocals on the chorus don't start right away on the 7" version. It seems that the Radio Edit on the promo CD is the same version as the 7" version.

b) Not counting the video edit, there are at least two different short versions of Temple Of Love (1992), the 7" version (4'40) and a slightly shorter edit (4'21) available on Ofra Haza's Greatest Hits compilation. Her edit has an abridged chorus towards the end of the song. I'm also pretty sure that the 4'13 version of Temple Of Love (1992) listed under #24 below is genuine, not fan made, however I don't know where it is from so I can't prove my case. I suspect it is from a compilation.

c) Until proven otherwise, I am assuming all long versions of More (incl. LP version and Extended Version from the CDS), no matter the release, are the same mix/edit so I am only listing it once below.

In the list below, version names with first letters in caps are the actual name listed on the release; version names with all lower-cases are my own designation for the version

First comes the list, then the source, then some notes, then a last section summarizing what is the most cost-efficient way to collect all these versions in the best quality possible...

Versions
1-Alice (1993) - 3:57 - 1993 rerecording
2-Detonation Boulevard - 3:49 - lp version
3-Detonation Boulevard - 3:48 - Remix / video edit
4-Doctor Jeep - 4:15 - 7� version (+)
5-Doctor Jeep - 8:59 - Extended Version
6-Doctor Jeep - 4:39 - lp version
7-Doctor Jeep - 3:03 - Radio Edit / video edit
8-I Was Wrong - 3:12 - American Fade
9-I Was Wrong - 6:03 - lp version
10-More - 4:44 - 7� version / Radio Edit
11-More - 4:41 - CDS single edit
12-More - 8:30 - lp version / Extended Version
13-More - 6’24 - video edit (*)
14-More (1993) - 10:53 - Groove Mix
15-More (1993) - 10:53 - Power Mix
16-More (1993) - 3:02 - Radio Edit
17-Ribbons - 4:26 - Live Bootleg Recording
18-Ribbons - 5:25 - lp version
19-Something Fast - 3:02 - Live Bootleg Recording
20-Something Fast - 4:36 - lp version
21-Temple Of Love (1992) - 4:40 - 7� version
22-Temple Of Love (1992) - 4:21 - 7� version edit
23-Temple Of Love (1992) - 8:05 - 12" version
24-Temple Of Love (1992) - 4:13 - 12" version edit
25-Temple Of Love (1992) - 3’06 - video edit (*)
26-Under The Gun - 6:16 - Metropolis Mix
27-Under The Gun - 5:41 - lp version
28-Under The Gun - 4:02 - DJ Edit
29-Under The Gun - 6:20 - Jutland Mix
30-Vision Thing - 4:36 - lp version
31-Vision Thing - 7:32 - Canadian Club
32-When You Don't See Me - 4:51 - lp version
33-When You Don't See Me - 4:46 - Remix / German Release
34-When You Don't See Me - 4:21 - Remix / German Release edit
35-You Could Be The One - 3:59 - 7� version

(+) vinyl only version
(*) special video edit

Sources
1-Under The Gun CDS [MR59CD, 1993]
2-Vision Thing LP [MR449, 1990]
3-Detonation Boulevard US Promo CD [PRCD 8308-2, 1991]
4-Doctor Jeep 7� [MR51, 1991]
5-Doctor Jeep CDS [MR51CD, 1991]
6-Vision Thing LP [MR449, 1990]
7-Doctor Jeep CDS [MR51CD, 1991]
8-Temple Of Love (1992) CDS [MR53CD, 1992]
9-Vision Thing LP [MR449, 1990]
10-More 7" [MR47, 1990], More Promo CD [PRCD 8252-2, 1990]
11-More CDS [MR47CD, 1990]
12-Vision Thing LP [MR449, 1990], More CDS [MR47CD, 1990]
13-Shot Rev 2.0 VHS [4509-93909-3, 1993]
14-More (1993) German Promo CD [PM 1210, 1993]
15-More (1993) German Promo CD [PM 1210, 1993]
16-More (1993) German Promo CD [PM 1210, 1993]
17-When You Don't See Me German CDS [9031-73896-2, 1991]
18-Vision Thing LP [MR449, 1990]
19-When You Don't See Me German CDS [9031-73896-2, 1991]
20-Vision Thing LP [MR449, 1990]
21-Temple Of Love (1992) 7" [MR53, 1992], Promo CD [MR53CD/DJ, 1992]
22-Ofra Haza Greatest Hits Vol. 2 [Hed Arzi Music 64471, 2004]
23-Temple Of Love (1992) CDS [MR53CD, 1992]
24-unknown
25-Shot Rev 2.0 VHS [4509-93909-3, 1993]
26-Under The Gun CDS [MR59CD, 1993]
27-A Slight Case Of Overbombing LP [EastWest 4509-93579-2, 1993]
28-Under The Gun Promo CD [MR59CDDJ, 1993]
29-Under The Gun CDS [MR59CD, 1993]
30-Vision Thing LP [MR449, 1990]
31-Temple Of Love (1992) CDS [MR53CD, 1992]
32-Vision Thing LP [MR449, 1990]
33-When You Don't See Me German CDS [9031-73896-2, 1991]
34-When You Don't See Me US Promo CD [PRCD 8364-2, 1991]
35-More CDS [MR47CD, 1990]

Notes
3-same version used on ASCOOB and on promo video
4-only available on vinyl
7-same version used on ASCOOB
8-initially released on I Was Wrong US US Promo CD [PRCD 8412-2]
11-backing vocals start earlier than on the 7� version / Radio Edit
12-listed as Extended Version on CDS
13-special video edit, only available on VHS
17-recorded live Hamburg 17.11.90
19-recorded live Hamburg 17.11.90
22-slightly different from the 7" version (abridged chorus towards the end)
23-same version used on ASCOOB
24-unknown origin but seems genuine… maybe from a compilation?
25-special video edit, only available on VHS
31-version used on ASCOOB, initially from US 12� Promo [ED 5539, 1990]
34-same version as Remix / German Release but fades 20 sec early

Collector’s Guide
(list of releases needed to own every version in best available quality)

A Slight Case Of Overbombing LP [EastWest 4509-93579-2, 1993] -> 3,7,27
Doctor Jeep 7� [MR51, 1991] -> 4 (*)
Doctor Jeep CDS [MR51CD, 1991] -> 5,7
More CDS [MR47CD, 1990] -> 11,35
More Promo CD [PRCD 8252-2, 1990] -> 10
More (1993) German Promo CD [PM 1210, 1993] -> 14,15,16
Ofra Haza Greatest Hits Vol. 2 [Hed Arzi Music 64471, 2004] -> 22
Shot Rev 2.0 VHS [4509-93909-3, 1993] -> 13,25
Temple Of Love (1992) CDS [MR53CD, 1992] -> 8,23,31
Temple Of Love (1992) Promo CD [MR53CD/DJ, 1992] -> 21
Under The Gun CDS [MR59CD, 1993] -> 1,26,29
Under The Gun Promo CD [MR59CDDJ, 1993] -> 28
Vision Thing LP [MR449, 1990] -> 2,6,9,12,18,20,30,32
When You Don't See Me German CDS [9031-73896-2, 1991] -> 17,19,33
When You Don't See Me US Promo CD [PRCD 8364-2, 1991] -> 34
? -> 24 (no identified source for this track)

(*) High-quality digital rip included on The Needle and The Damage Done bootleg

Have you heard the tracks on this bootleg? http://sisterswiki.org/Under_The_Knife

Do you own 22-Ofra Haza Greatest Hits Vol. 2 [Hed Arzi Music 64471, 2004]? How does the mastering of ToL compare to the Under the Knife version?

great work.

what about the tv edit versions?

temple of love (with ofra haza,vocals live)
more (the german tv show peterspopshow)

re these TV show appearances, were they perform with live vocals over recorded music? They seem to be lip-synched

I'd love to get a hold of UNDER THE KNIFE so i can compare these tracks to the ones on the list. Is there any way to find this bootleg online? I'd be happy to trade for a download link of it if anyone is able to help....

Elon wrote:re these TV show appearances, were they perform with live vocals over recorded music? They seem to be lip-synched

I'd love to get a hold of UNDER THE KNIFE so i can compare these tracks to the ones on the list. Is there any way to find this bootleg online? I'd be happy to trade for a download link of it if anyone is able to help....

You tried here?

Elon wrote:re these TV show appearances, were they perform with live vocals over recorded music? They seem to be lip-synched

I'd love to get a hold of UNDER THE KNIFE so i can compare these tracks to the ones on the list. Is there any way to find this bootleg online? I'd be happy to trade for a download link of it if anyone is able to help....

Only the TOTP performances of ToL and UTG have live vocals.

"Under The Knife" should really have been called "Scraping The Barrel".
Presumably created merely so the seller of the Kenny Giles & Wea In-House discs could screw people out of a third fee on eBum.

These lists are great, working through them now.
Not sure if they have been updated elsewhere but the More extended version and album version are different.
The extended has a few extra bars of backing vocals prior to the "do you get scared" verse.

Aussie Atters wrote:These lists are great, working through them now.
Not sure if they have been updated elsewhere but the More extended version and album version are different.
The extended has a few extra bars of backing vocals prior to the "do you get scared" verse.

Hello & welcome to MyHeartland

Pista wrote:Hello & welcome to MyHeartland

Thanks. I figured after 30+ years of listening to TSOM i'd apply my trainspotting tendencies to them.
Great that all this effort has been gone to already by Elon.