Heartland

My current system is a
Naim nait 5 series amplifier
marantz 6005 cd
Pro-ject 1xpression carbon with Ortofon red stylus
Monitor audio bx 5 speakers
Musical fidelity phono amp
Interconnects are Kimber cables

It s quite a good system but the synergy between the speakers and the amp isn't the best, the Monitors are a bit dark sounding.

The big question are the speakers , can anyone recomended speakers that work good with the Sisters- Siouxsie & the banshees - New model army and all that lot.
Going through the web you only find reviews mentioning jazz and classical which is realy frustrating.
I was thinking something like the Pmc Gb1i or Twenty 23 or the Harbeths c7 or Neat motive sx 2 if anyone owns or has ever listen to them.

By dark do you mean there is treble lacking? or is it an amp speaker interaction issue. I had the mark 2 Nait with earlier Monitor Audios 300 md I think and it was not dark but don't know if Naim have changed their quasi complimentary amp design over the years and reliance on the speaker cable as the output inductor for the amp. I have no clue on what speakers to recommend, I designed all of mine for the last 25 years designed and altered most of the electronics too. Anyway back to your issue, I would say have a look at Audiokarma.com, if you are any good with wood DIYAudio.com also before you spend money on anything see if you can borrow a recommended speaker cable for the Naim, I know QED 79 strand or equivalent works if thats a help. Also check to see if the speakers are not damaged in someway MA's always sounded on the bright side to me and certainly Naim's strong point has always been that they rock big time awesome dynamics.

I would go & audition either B&W CM9s or even their 683's

Why are you using reference monitors (the M-Audio bx5's? They're designed to give you a flat and accurate, warts and all presentation of sound when mixing in a studio environment. They're not meant to be used in the context of a high fidelity sound system.

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/audio- ... 445/review

These are the ones i have, not the small monitor ones.

Alex66 wrote:By dark do you mean there is treble lacking? or is it an amp speaker interaction issue. I had the mark 2 Nait with earlier Monitor Audios 300 md I think and it was not dark but don't know if Naim have changed their quasi complimentary amp design over the years and reliance on the speaker cable as the output inductor for the amp. I have no clue on what speakers to recommend, I designed all of mine for the last 25 years designed and altered most of the electronics too. Anyway back to your issue, I would say have a look at Audiokarma.com, if you are any good with wood DIYAudio.com also before you spend money on anything see if you can borrow a recommended speaker cable for the Naim, I know QED 79 strand or equivalent works if thats a help. Also check to see if the speakers are not damaged in someway MA's always sounded on the bright side to me and certainly Naim's strong point has always been that they rock big time awesome dynamics.

I'm not good at all !! The sound feels like there s a veil covering it and i do have them clear off walls back and on the side.
I do appreciate though that they bring the details out and the soundstage for that kind of money is realy good. Especially with very good recordings like "anastasis" from Dead can dance or "in dream" by the Editors sound impressive. Or flood I from my good old greek pressing brings a real 3d image. I just want better and i know this means more expensive gear.

Pista wrote:I would go & audition either B&W CM9s or even their 683's

The cm9 are too expensive and the 683 need much more room to shine.

And one thing i want to avoid is equipment made in China. I do prefer something made anywhere in Europe or the States. I had the impression they( the M A ) were manufactured in the Uk as i believed the same for the Marantz cd player that they were made in Japan, even if it means i have to pay more.
I auditioned the Croft amplifier which is made in England and it s a realy small company, but their gear is great and at a great price too. Maybe i should start by changing amplifier...

I thought the B&Ws were still made down in Worthing.
I know their budget stuff was usually made in the far east, but pretty sure the 600's & CMs were "home grown".

Pista wrote:I thought the B&Ws were still made down in Worthing.
I know their budget stuff was usually made in the far east, but pretty sure the 600's & CMs were "home grown".

From what i ve read both are now manufactured in China Steve.

Silence is platinum wrote:http://www.techradar.com/reviews/audio- ... 445/review

These are the ones i have, not the small monitor ones.

Clearly I should have waited until I'd had my coffee

Silence is platinum wrote:

Pista wrote:I thought the B&Ws were still made down in Worthing.
I know their budget stuff was usually made in the far east, but pretty sure the 600's & CMs were "home grown".

From what i ve read both are now manufactured in China Steve.

That's actually really sad
Seems Worthing just makes the 800s now then.

Pista wrote:

Silence is platinum wrote:

Pista wrote:I thought the B&Ws were still made down in Worthing.
I know their budget stuff was usually made in the far east, but pretty sure the 600's & CMs were "home grown".

From what i ve read both are now manufactured in China Steve.

That's actually really sad
Seems Worthing just makes the 800s now then.

An awful lot of makers have moved manufacture over to China etc, even some classic "Brittish" names such as Quad and m*****n all that is left is the R&D department. I think Linn still have a Scottish manufacturing base as Audio Note still manufacture on the south coast and Japan (2 diff companies now). Then a lot of what is inside is made in China, I think Focal still make their drivers in France and Fostex still manufacture theirs in Japan. If you like multi ways some of the Focal speakers are extremely good, but things like the Grand Utopia is V expensive. Its saddening in a way as I remember there being no end of really good UK based makers and they did a lot of superb products.

Silence is platinum wrote:

Pista wrote:I would go & audition either B&W CM9s or even their 683's

The cm9 are too expensive and the 683 need much more room to shine.

And one thing i want to avoid is equipment made in China. I do prefer something made anywhere in Europe or the States. I had the impression they( the M A ) were manufactured in the Uk as i believed the same for the Marantz cd player that they were made in Japan, even if it means i have to pay more.
I auditioned the Croft amplifier which is made in England and it s a realy small company, but their gear is great and at a great price too. Maybe i should start by changing amplifier...

I know this will to many sound a bit left field but have you thought of playing around with the furniture in your room? It could be as simple as too much or too little soft furnishings, a reflection off the wall etc. If you keep those speakers you would not need a powerful amp unless you have a massive room the Croft should drive it quite them well.

The "bit dark sounding" seems ideal for the stuff you want to listen to

But have you or can you bi-wire?

That makes a difference

[/quote]

An awful lot of makers have moved manufacture over to China etc, even some classic "Brittish" names such as Quad and m*****n all that is left is the R&D department. I think Linn still have a Scottish manufacturing base as Audio Note still manufacture on the south coast and Japan (2 diff companies now). Then a lot of what is inside is made in China, I think Focal still make their drivers in France and Fostex still manufacture theirs in Japan. If you like multi ways some of the Focal speakers are extremely good, but things like the Grand Utopia is V expensive. Its saddening in a way as I remember there being no end of really good UK based makers and they did a lot of superb products.[/quote]

Almost all big british companies are manufacturing now in China with the exception of Rega, Naim and Exposure , the companies i mentioned in the beggining are all still manufacturing in the UK as well.

I don't want to support a nation that eats cats,dogs and uses-tortures animals in general with the most disgusting and sick way.

Alex66 wrote:

Silence is platinum wrote:

Pista wrote:I would go & audition either B&W CM9s or even their 683's

The cm9 are too expensive and the 683 need much more room to shine.

And one thing i want to avoid is equipment made in China. I do prefer something made anywhere in Europe or the States. I had the impression they( the M A ) were manufactured in the Uk as i believed the same for the Marantz cd player that they were made in Japan, even if it means i have to pay more.
I auditioned the Croft amplifier which is made in England and it s a realy small company, but their gear is great and at a great price too. Maybe i should start by changing amplifier...

I know this will to many sound a bit left field but have you thought of playing around with the furniture in your room? It could be as simple as too much or too little soft furnishings, a reflection off the wall etc. If you keep those speakers you would not need a powerful amp unless you have a massive room the Croft should drive it quite them well.

Yes i ve already played around with the furniture. Then naim is 2X30 watts and the Croft 2X45, i think the extra current will serve better the M.O. but the decision is final, they will , along with the marantz cd ,leave my house asap.

million voices wrote:The "bit dark sounding" seems ideal for the stuff you want to listen to

But have you or can you bi-wire?

That makes a difference

That is something i haven't tried yet, thanks for the tip!

Lots of things to think about here.

Simple things first: is everything plugged in correctly, are the speakers in phase with jumpers attached? Are your speakers positioned correctly in the room? http://noaudiophile.com/speakercalc/

Are you listening mostly to CDs/high-res or vinyl? Are you listening to original releases or remasters? Often the originals can be far easier to listen to as they haven't been jacked up through remastering.

I've not heard the Marantz CDP but I know they're typically renowned for a creamy sound, the Ortofon Red definitely has a warm character.

Given the trebly nature of post-punk, I prefer listening to that genre with warmer sounding gear as it tames some of the harshness in '80s production. If you want bright I'd go with Musical Fidelity source and amplification and B&W speakers - at least in my experience they were piercing when combined.

If you're sticking with the Naim and want to buy British made speakers then Rega should be your first audition. I've got the Rega Elex-R and DAC-R, superb pieces of kit but, again, a pinch on the warm side as I think that compliments a lot of the music I listen to.

The BX5's are described as neutral, detailed, and analytical. They shouldn't sound dark or veiled.

Silence is platinum wrote:

Alex66 wrote:

Silence is platinum wrote: The cm9 are too expensive and the 683 need much more room to shine.

And one thing i want to avoid is equipment made in China. I do prefer something made anywhere in Europe or the States. I had the impression they( the M A ) were manufactured in the Uk as i believed the same for the Marantz cd player that they were made in Japan, even if it means i have to pay more.
I auditioned the Croft amplifier which is made in England and it s a realy small company, but their gear is great and at a great price too. Maybe i should start by changing amplifier...

I know this will to many sound a bit left field but have you thought of playing around with the furniture in your room? It could be as simple as too much or too little soft furnishings, a reflection off the wall etc. If you keep those speakers you would not need a powerful amp unless you have a massive room the Croft should drive it quite them well.

Yes i ve already played around with the furniture. Then naim is 2X30 watts and the Croft 2X45, i think the extra current will serve better the M.O. but the decision is final, they will , along with the marantz cd ,leave my house asap.

They have increased the power output over the 1&2 then they were something like 15 Watts, not that I think its an issue my new amp is a whole 8Wx2. What CD you thinking of getting had you thought of buying an DAC to stick on the end of it instead.

robertzombie wrote:Lots of things to think about here.

Simple things first: is everything plugged in correctly, are the speakers in phase with jumpers attached? Are your speakers positioned correctly in the room? http://noaudiophile.com/speakercalc/

Are you listening mostly to CDs/high-res or vinyl? Are you listening to original releases or remasters? Often the originals can be far easier to listen to as they haven't been jacked up through remastering.

I've not heard the Marantz CDP but I know they're typically renowned for a creamy sound, the Ortofon Red definitely has a warm character.

Given the trebly nature of post-punk, I prefer listening to that genre with warmer sounding gear as it tames some of the harshness in '80s production. If you want bright I'd go with Musical Fidelity source and amplification and B&W speakers - at least in my experience they were piercing when combined.

If you're sticking with the Naim and want to buy British made speakers then Rega should be your first audition. I've got the Rega Elex-R and DAC-R, superb pieces of kit but, again, a pinch on the warm side as I think that compliments a lot of the music I listen to.

The BX5's are described as neutral, detailed, and analytical. They shouldn't sound dark or veiled.

I already tried moving the furniture around, the speakers are well clear of everything.
Only cd's and vinyl. i don't have that many remastared stuff, i realy believe that the amp with the speakers just isn't a good match, and i do live on a remote place so there s no possibility for me to get gear at home at try it out which i know is a big disadvantage but that's how it is.
Rega just recently got a distribution here in Greece so i m gonna pay them a visit next time i m in Athens.

Alex66 wrote:

Silence is platinum wrote:

Alex66 wrote: I know this will to many sound a bit left field but have you thought of playing around with the furniture in your room? It could be as simple as too much or too little soft furnishings, a reflection off the wall etc. If you keep those speakers you would not need a powerful amp unless you have a massive room the Croft should drive it quite them well.

Yes i ve already played around with the furniture. Then naim is 2X30 watts and the Croft 2X45, i think the extra current will serve better the M.O. but the decision is final, they will , along with the marantz cd ,leave my house asap.

They have increased the power output over the 1&2 then they were something like 15 Watts, not that I think its an issue my new amp is a whole 8Wx2. What CD you thinking of getting had you thought of buying an DAC to stick on the end of it instead.

Now that's a tricky question about the cd, i realy don't know, i was thinking about a second hand naim but i have read quite a few complaints about them, finding a cd in a normal price range without beeing made in China and is gonna a bit difficult. Of course there are cd from Audiolab and Exposure or the italian Audia but i dont know how reliable they will be. Japanese are the best in building cd's, that s a fact, my previous Sony (which i owned for 16 years) had a realy rough life but the damn thing never caused me the slightest concern.
What do you mean with by sticking the dac to the cd?

On the back of the CD player you should have a digital out, dac runs off this. The added advantage with some is the ability to run high deff off a PC through USB as well. Micromega do one the MyDac its amazingly cheep but not made in China, they also make CD players and they used to be good when I hear them. The Micromega little DAC was an Absolute Sound product of the year. See if you can find a dealer who will let you borrow one for the wk end or something.

Oh and if you buy a DAC don't buy a fancy cable it only has to be a 75ohm cable decently terminated to work anything else won't do anything to the sound. I got one from CPC for about a pound or similar, if need be and you can't order one let me know and I can attach it to the next order I do and post it onto you.

The Marantz 6005 is an award winning £350 CDP. I doubt whether adding the Micromega at ~£299 will make one jot of difference to the sound. You'd have to spend double the CDP on a DAC in order to get an improvement, that puts you in Rega and Audiolab territory (a fine place to be!)

Again, I'm surprised at the mismatch between the Naim and BX5's. However, at £1k, the Naim would do fine partnered with pricier equipment (£1k starting point would suit the amp and be noticeably better than the BX5).

OP: You say the sound is dark/veiled. Assuming this is not a set-up issue, what sound would you rather achieve? Neutral or bright? Have they always sounded dark? Is the tweeter working?

Grovelling apologies for hijacking the thread

One question then I will shut up

I see you have the Marantz 6005 CD Player. I have the 6004 (made in Japan). My question is does yours play FLAC CD-r ?