The idea has been floated in the past that the original 7" and 12" Body And Soul singles utilise alternate mixes for Body And Soul and Train. This idea is further considered if one happens to compare the rendering of Body And Soul on Overbombing with the 12" - the sound is quite different.
I compared my original singles with the 2015 remaster to see if I could pinpoint the differences. I did this by needledropping the singles and comparing everything digitally, this way I could ensure volume was the same across the board and so I was only hearing EQ and source discrepancies rather than volume. On both tracks, the 12" is significantly brighter and as a result more dynamic, whilst the 7" sounds murkier/cloudier. The 7" mastering is clearly more compressed, especially on the kick drum. Upon listening and comparing, I couldn't detect any mix differences between the 7" and 12" renditions, and I think the audible differences that are definitely there are a result of quite disparate mastering techniques utilised in the lacquer cutting process. The 7" mastering is certainly more compressed and muddy sounding but, when we compare this back to back with the 2015 remaster (which I currently consider to be canon) it is the 7" mastering that sounds closer to canon than the 12" which, by comparison, sounds goosed in the upper registers. On the 12", the upper mid-range is excessively boosted, which has the effect of bringing out the guitars and vocals, making the mix "pop". However, the more one compares this with the 2015 canon the more one's ear becomes fatigued by it. This isn't to say the 12" is bad, but it is certainly the odd one out and, given what we know about the gain issues on the 12", further confirms its status as "problematic".
BODY AND SOUL frequency analysis:
RED = 12"
YELLOW = 7"
BLUE = 2015
Here it is possible to see the EQ differences between the three versions. As you can see, the 7" and 2015 curves are closer overall, whilst the 12" drifts upwards between 7-12 kHz, providing the upper mid-range boost which adds a sense of definition or "air".
TRAIN frequency analysis:
RED = 12"
YELLOW = 7"
BLUE = 2015
Here the difference is much more pronounced. Again, the 7" and 2015 follow a similar overall curve, whilst the 12" is significantly boosted from 8-14 kHz (a difference of almost 10 dB at 12 kHz!).
Humans are most sensitive to frequencies between 2-5 kHz. If we focus on this range, the 12" and 2015 are almost identical, with the 7" revealing less definition (which results in its murky quality). It is beyond this range, however, where things start to go awry on the 12".
I certainly think the 12" mastering is unique then. It's truer to the songs in our crucial auditory range, but it's let down by a frankly wild upper mid-range boost, and we know this leads to issues down the road with Body Electric and Afterhours.
You can hear for yourself: 7" / 12".
Thank you!
Addendum: One possible reason for the inaccurate high frequencies on the 12" could be a Dolby NR mismatch. If you record with Dolby and playback without, the result is that high frequencies will be over-emphasised.
Body And Soul 7"/12" listening analysis and graphs
- Being645
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Thank you for these researches ... ...
The differences between the 7" and 12" are clearly audible ... and once one starts comparing, both versions sound really not optimal ...
You got a link to the 2015 remaster, too? That should be interesting. ... ...
The differences between the 7" and 12" are clearly audible ... and once one starts comparing, both versions sound really not optimal ...
You got a link to the 2015 remaster, too? That should be interesting. ... ...
Just to compound matters, would the quality of the actual vinyl also contribute to the difference?
If, for example, it was p!ss poor reground vinyl used for the 7", I am assuming the end product would be inferior from an audio point of view.
If, for example, it was p!ss poor reground vinyl used for the 7", I am assuming the end product would be inferior from an audio point of view.
- eastmidswhizzkid
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i'd love a link to the 2015 remaster.....to be deleted immediately after listening (research and destroy lol), honest.Being645 wrote:Thank you for these researches ... ...
The differences between the 7" and 12" are clearly audible ... and once one starts comparing, both versions sound really not optimal ...
You got a link to the 2015 remaster, too? That should be interesting. ... ...
EDIT: obviously i could never deliberately destroy anything by the sisters but as soon as i start flogging my fan-videos (mashup mixes from Life Of Brian/Walk Away with textual irrelevancies from Haynes Manual for the Vauxhall Viva) i bet i'll buy one immediately.
Well I was handsome and I was strong
And I knew the words to every song.
"Did my singing please you?"
"No! The words you sang were wrong!"
And I knew the words to every song.
"Did my singing please you?"
"No! The words you sang were wrong!"
-
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Proof you can make a sows ear from a silk purse
1984 live version is all that matters
1984 live version is all that matters
Goths have feelings too
- robertzombie
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Yes, but that would probably manifest itself in the form of surface noise and crackle.Pista wrote:Just to compound matters, would the quality of the actual vinyl also contribute to the difference?
If, for example, it was p!ss poor reground vinyl used for the 7", I am assuming the end product would be inferior from an audio point of view.
The 2015 remasters are available to stream on Tidal and Spotify.eastmidswhizzkid wrote:i'd love a link to the 2015 remaster.....to be deleted immediately after listening (research and destroy lol), honest.Being645 wrote:Thank you for these researches ... ...
The differences between the 7" and 12" are clearly audible ... and once one starts comparing, both versions sound really not optimal ...
You got a link to the 2015 remaster, too? That should be interesting. ... ...
EDIT: obviously i could never deliberately destroy anything by the sisters but as soon as i start flogging my fan-videos (mashup mixes from Life Of Brian/Walk Away with textual irrelevancies from Haynes Manual for the Vauxhall Viva) i bet i'll buy one immediately.
- eastmidswhizzkid
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thanks to a kind benefactor (cheers steve) i already have them. but thanks anyway bro.
BIG EDIT: just burnt these to CD and WOWWA-WEEWEE-WOOWOO! theyre f**king amazing. EVERYONE here needs to [s]hear[/s] own these.
BIG EDIT: just burnt these to CD and WOWWA-WEEWEE-WOOWOO! theyre f**king amazing. EVERYONE here needs to [s]hear[/s] own these.
Well I was handsome and I was strong
And I knew the words to every song.
"Did my singing please you?"
"No! The words you sang were wrong!"
And I knew the words to every song.
"Did my singing please you?"
"No! The words you sang were wrong!"
- robertzombie
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Availability by location: http://www.findhdmusic.com/album/first- ... s-of/23828
N.B. Whilst the streaming editions contain the tracks discussed here, they appear to have incorrect mixes for the main album. Not sure what's going on there.
N.B. Whilst the streaming editions contain the tracks discussed here, they appear to have incorrect mixes for the main album. Not sure what's going on there.
- Being645
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Cool .... thanks for the link ... ...robertzombie wrote:Availability by location: http://www.findhdmusic.com/album/first- ... s-of/23828
N.B. Whilst the streaming editions contain the tracks discussed here, they appear to have incorrect mixes for the main album. Not sure what's going on there.
here's the one to the 2015 Body And Soul 12" - available for a listen in 320 kbps MP3 or 16 Bit FLAC
http://www.qobuz.com/de-de/album/body-a ... 5646140435
So these are the downloads included in the vinyl edition, and not the data file only version?
- robertzombie
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The downloads included with the records are limited to mp3 quality. The ones you've linked to are the same masters but full resolution.Being645 wrote:Cool .... thanks for the link ... ...robertzombie wrote:Availability by location: http://www.findhdmusic.com/album/first- ... s-of/23828
N.B. Whilst the streaming editions contain the tracks discussed here, they appear to have incorrect mixes for the main album. Not sure what's going on there.
here's the one to the 2015 Body And Soul 12" - available for a listen in 320 kbps MP3 or 16 Bit FLAC
http://www.qobuz.com/de-de/album/body-a ... 5646140435
So these are the downloads included in the vinyl edition, and not the data file only version?
- Being645
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Thank you for clarifying that ... ... I should have known given the discussions here on the FALAA 2015 release ... anyway, it's always better to reassure certain facts ... ...robertzombie wrote:The downloads included with the records are limited to mp3 quality. The ones you've linked to are the same masters but full resolution.Being645 wrote:Cool .... thanks for the link ... ...robertzombie wrote:Availability by location: http://www.findhdmusic.com/album/first- ... s-of/23828
N.B. Whilst the streaming editions contain the tracks discussed here, they appear to have incorrect mixes for the main album. Not sure what's going on there.
here's the one to the 2015 Body And Soul 12" - available for a listen in 320 kbps MP3 or 16 Bit FLAC
http://www.qobuz.com/de-de/album/body-a ... 5646140435
So these are the downloads included in the vinyl edition, and not the data file only version?
Yeppers.stufarq wrote:2015 remasters? Are these official?
& they are lovely
- robertzombie
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Keep up!stufarq wrote:2015 remasters? Are these official?
http://www.findhdmusic.com/album/first- ... s-of/23828
http://www.findhdmusic.com/album/floodl ... ercy/26554
- robertzombie
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Vinyl and high-resolution download Both are great.stufarq wrote:Oh, are these the vinyl ones? I'd forgotten about them.