Heartland

...then I can [s]shoot[/s] punch fascists

https://youtu.be/9rh1dhur4aI

soundtrack
It's so right and so wrong to do that.
Direct action and provke direct reaction(s).

Punching fascists is self-defence. They mean to kill us.

You're white, but you're more lefty than natural born lefty me, so you should be afraid. Taking that logic, we can punch any soldier, because, theoretically they're train to kill (at least most of then, by this or other mean).

I'm not really being serious

Bartek wrote:You're white, but you're more lefty than natural born lefty me, so you should be afraid. Taking that logic, we can punch any soldier, because, theoretically they're train to kill (at least most of then, by this or other mean).

If the solider (or any other state agent - cop, traffic warden, whoever) is directly threatening your way of life, your freedoms, or your life, then yes, you have every right to lamp the motherfucker. This is the core of revolutionary warfare and has been practiced for centuries. The IRA, MauMau, FSA, ANC, have all used these means of resistance.

Then again, if he just happens to be walking down the street, stabbing him to death is not acceptable.

To Fiendy's point, lamping fascists is a an enormously-satisfying feeling, but I should stress that I only approve of nazi-twatting in those instances where you are in clear and present danger of being lamped yourself. If some badly-coiffed tw@t is getting his 15 minutes of fame, then lamping seems excessive.

I could watch that prat getting thumped all day.
https://twitter.com/donswaynos/status/8 ... 7207870464

Might be in all our interests if Trump catches one as well. Sooner rather than later. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvz7Re6 ... e=youtu.be

I think that's technically known as an alt-right hook

Pista wrote:I think that's technically known as an alt-right hook

An alternative hug, mebbe?

Pista wrote:I think that's technically known as an alt-right hook

It's over. You win the thread.

Well, I don't agree with what the guy believes in or his politics but the man that threw the punch is a gutless spineless coward, to sucker punch someone like that, with a face mask on then dissappear into the crowd, wanker , sorry. I can only imagine the furore it the roles were reversed in that video.
I'd have way more respect for the thug that threw the punch if he called the guy out for what he is, a racist, these knobs are easily made a fool, all you've got to do is challenge him in public, which could've been done.

scotty wrote:Well, I don't agree with what the guy believes in or his politics but the man that threw the punch is a gutless spineless coward, to sucker punch someone like that, with a face mask on then dissappear into the crowd.

That guy was with the black bloc in Washington DC for trump's inauguration. The group is masked to make identification and prosecution difficult. (Also to provide some protection against the tear gas and pepper spray the police were dousing out on all of us.) It was not a sucker punch and the man who did it has my respect.

Chaotican wrote:

scotty wrote:Well, I don't agree with what the guy believes in or his politics but the man that threw the punch is a gutless spineless coward, to sucker punch someone like that, with a face mask on then dissappear into the crowd.

That guy was with the black bloc in Washington DC for trump's inauguration. The group is masked to make identification and prosecution difficult. (Also to provide some protection against the tear gas and pepper spray the police were dousing out on all of us.) It was not a sucker punch and the man who did it has my respect.

Face mask to avoid prosecution - cowardly action.
"not a sucker punch"
"the guy has my respect" says more about you.

scotty wrote:

Chaotican wrote:

scotty wrote:Well, I don't agree with what the guy believes in or his politics but the man that threw the punch is a gutless spineless coward, to sucker punch someone like that, with a face mask on then dissappear into the crowd.

That guy was with the black bloc in Washington DC for trump's inauguration. The group is masked to make identification and prosecution difficult. (Also to provide some protection against the tear gas and pepper spray the police were dousing out on all of us.) It was not a sucker punch and the man who did it has my respect.

Face mask to avoid prosecution - cowardly action.
"not a sucker punch"
"the guy has my respect" says more about you.

Please, google black bloc. It's fine if you genuinely disagree, but to have you jump to misinformed conclusions and smugly lecture me
is just too much like every other day I've lived for the last two years or so.

Yep, I'm good with punching Nazis. I'm happy to share more insight and stories into what happened that day, but not in writing.

Chaotican wrote:

scotty wrote:

Chaotican wrote: That guy was with the black bloc in Washington DC for trump's inauguration. The group is masked to make identification and prosecution difficult. (Also to provide some protection against the tear gas and pepper spray the police were dousing out on all of us.) It was not a sucker punch and the man who did it has my respect.

Face mask to avoid prosecution - cowardly action.
"not a sucker punch"
"the guy has my respect" says more about you.

Please, google black bloc. It's fine if you genuinely disagree, but to have you jump to misinformed conclusions and smugly lecture me
is just too much like every other day I've lived for the last two years or so.

Yep, I'm good with punching Nazis. I'm happy to share more insight and stories into what happened that day, but not in writing.

Ok, googled it, makes not a toss of diffirence, the guy that came out of nowhere and punched the the other guy, coward, all the other cowards wearing face masks, cowards, if you believe in what you're saying and the actions you are taking, dont hide.
"smugly lecturing you" someone needs to, if you dont think that sucker punching anyone like that is not a cowardly thing to do you are not worth debating with.
The guys a Nazis, how many other arseholes have got on his redneck side with that kind of thing???? If the the other was the one that was sucker punched by a white supremacist you'd be screaming from the roof tops, that also makes you a hypocrite.
I completely agree with the side you're on but the way you argue that that type of behaviour is acceptable or in anyway furthers and progresses your cause is an embarrassment, you have sunk to the level of the people you so vehemently disagree with, there's a time and a place to punch these feckers in the face, that was not it.

scotty, I am pretty much in agreement. The solution to bad speech is more and better speech. Responding with a punch just means you can't respond with an argument.

Additionally, as a citizen of Mordor-on-the-Potomoac, I am very angry with the people who attacked the working class in D.C. in the name of the worm king of D.C. ("Worm King" is an autocorrect error for "working class," but I've opted to leave it in the name of style).

The point is, they're assholes.

I completely agree with the side you're on but the way you argue that that type of behaviour is acceptable or in anyway furthers and progresses your cause is an embarrassment, you have sunk to the level of the people you so vehemently disagree with, there's a time and a place to punch these feckers in the face, that was not it.[/quote]

Actually, I thought it over and you're right that it was a sucker punch. The intention (and why I was trying to explain a black bloc) wasn't to avoid an altercation or to not give the guy a chance to fight back, however. The people in the altercation had other plans and were working to blend as a mass. The man who (edit- is rumoured to have done) the punching has been at this a LONG time for the right reasons, hence the respect.

In this case, the country/world was demoralized. Spencer and a s**t ton of trump followers have been gloating over how they are in charge now. Watching Spencer get punched in the face changed the mood a bit. Reminded a lot of people that they could stand up and created some hesitation on the altright about spewing their hate. It was worth it, IMO. I can see the validity of your opinion as well. (I would also celebrate if someone were to wage violence against trump without proper warning, so maybe I'm just a bitch.)

sultan2075 wrote:scotty,

Additionally, as a citizen of Mordor-on-the-Potomoac, I am very angry with the people who attacked the working class in D.C. in the name of the worm king of D.C. ("Worm King" is an autocorrect error for "working class," but I've opted to leave it in the name of style).

The point is, they're assholes.

Curious - do you mean the people causing property damage? I was not impressed by the vast majority of that group. Not by their motives, not by their actions, and as a project manager, least of all by their planning and efficiency.

There is a time to and a reason to break laws and these guys were pretty clueless and unfocused. Nevertheless, to claim stay complacent in these times isn't the answer, either.

I'd much rather see the guy ripped apart in a proper debate but any punches landed him are a bonus. He's an embarrassment to life.
Expressing some of his views here http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/ ... rd/8004792

scotty wrote:Face mask to avoid prosecution - cowardly action.

Maybe...but there are a lot of folks with a lot of guns over here.

adarkadaptedi wrote:

scotty wrote:Face mask to avoid prosecution - cowardly action.

Maybe...but there are a lot of folks with a lot of guns over here.

Not in DC, thanks to local laws (ironically, I lived in Texas for over two decades, and never felt the need to own a gun. Now that I live in DC, I must admit: it seems prudent to own one. Make of that what you will).

Chaotican wrote:

sultan2075 wrote:scotty,

Additionally, as a citizen of Mordor-on-the-Potomoac, I am very angry with the people who attacked the working class in D.C. in the name of the worm king of D.C. ("Worm King" is an autocorrect error for "working class," but I've opted to leave it in the name of style).

The point is, they're assholes.

Curious - do you mean the people causing property damage? I was not impressed by the vast majority of that group. Not by their motives, not by their actions, and as a project manager, least of all by their planning and efficiency.

There is a time to and a reason to break laws and these guys were pretty clueless and unfocused. Nevertheless, to claim stay complacent in these times isn't the answer, either.

Yes, I do.

These black-bloc trust-fund so-called "anarchists" (or so I assume) think that they are defending the working class, but attacking a Starbucks or a McDonalds is not a brave blow against Kapital, it's a blow against the working class who work at Starbucks or McDonald's (take it from the ex-construction worker). The same goes for the post-operative brain-donors who lit the limo on fire in the name of "anarchy" - they cost a hard-working immigrant somewhere between $70k and $100k. Luckily for him, the Trumpenproletariat in Florida decided to run a fundraiser to support him.

I love that I live in DC, and one of the reasons I love it is that people come here to protest various things. And, as a First Amendment absolutist, I support them.

But these people? A bunch of assholes who think wrapping hooliganism in dissent makes it noble and praiseworthy (I would probably have agreed when I was 15 and got my politics from Dead Kennedys records. But eventually I started thinking for myself). I am not exactly a fan of The Donald, but these dickheads make me like him more and more and more each day. They are trying to undermine him, but end up causing others to support him.

They also end up (as I mentioned above) shitting on the working class, and generally making a mess of my city. I'd prefer they stayed away if they can't behave. Dropping ten-thousand signs downtown is just litter, even if it is in front of the Trump hotel. The same goes for Logan Circle, Scott Circle, etc.

The other point I'd make is that there is no reason to break laws. We still have the rule of law in the US. I am sure the Republicans (not a typo) will attempt to impeach Trump at the first opportunity. The left should reconsider their current policy of tantrums. It is not helpful to their cause.

Since 2008, the Democrats have lost over a thousand state and/or national seats. The American left needs to give that fact some serious thought.

sultan2075 wrote:

Chaotican wrote:

sultan2075 wrote:scotty,

Additionally, as a citizen of Mordor-on-the-Potomoac, I am very angry with the people who attacked the working class in D.C. in the name of the worm king of D.C. ("Worm King" is an autocorrect error for "working class," but I've opted to leave it in the name of style).

The point is, they're assholes.

Curious - do you mean the people causing property damage? .

Yes, I do.

These black-bloc trust-fund so-called "anarchists" (or so I assume) think that they are defending the working class, but attacking a Starbucks or a McDonalds is not a brave blow against Kapital, it's a blow against the working class who work at Starbucks or McDonald's (take it from the ex-construction worker). The same goes for the post-operative brain-donors who lit the limo on fire in the name of "anarchy" - they cost a hard-working immigrant somewhere between $70k and $100k. Luckily for him, the Trumpenproletariat in Florida decided to run a fundraiser to support him.

I love that I live in DC, and one of the reasons I love it is that people come here to protest various things. And, as a First Amendment absolutist, I support them.

But these people? A bunch of assholes who think wrapping hooliganism in dissent makes it noble and praiseworthy (I would probably have agreed when I was 15 and got my politics from Dead Kennedys records. But eventually I started thinking for myself). I am not exactly a fan of The Donald, but these dickheads make me like him more and more and more each day. They are trying to undermine him, but end up causing others to support him.

They also end up (as I mentioned above) shitting on the working class, and generally making a mess of my city. I'd prefer they stayed away if they can't behave. Dropping ten-thousand signs downtown is just litter, even if it is in front of the Trump hotel. The same goes for Logan Circle, Scott Circle, etc.

The other point I'd make is that there is no reason to break laws. We still have the rule of law in the US. I am sure the Republicans (not a typo) will attempt to impeach Trump at the first opportunity. The left should reconsider their current policy of tantrums. It is not helpful to their cause.

Since 2008, the Democrats have lost over a thousand state and/or national seats. The American left needs to give that fact some serious thought.

The disruptj20 crowd had planned a demonstration no matter who won. You've got to keep their antics separate from the genuine resistance, a (growing) group of organized people who will adhere to the constitution and oppose any threats to it. Right now, the biggest threat to the constitution is sitting in the oval office, but I agree that his journey there is the most disturbing part of the story.

I used to think America sucked, too. Dead Kennedys and Crass records and I refused to say the pledge starting in grade school. When you look at the concept of the country, however, it is really a brilliant foundation. The society we have today isn't upholding it and doesn't deserve it.

Both right and left are underinformed and choose to chase feel-good affirmations of their own narrow-mindedness. Sharing information as we can now should spark new levels of accelerated evolution. Instead, we seem to be lowering the bar as we can get social approval and reinforcement (possibly the motive behind innovation?) no matter how moronic and baseless our ideas are.

The problem isn't that trump was elected, it's that anyone was ever able to justify him as a choice. As anything other than a complete joke. That is a symptom of a disease.

If the behavior of a random anarchist makes you pause and think, "Gee, this narcissistic, pathetically weak and unqualified wannabe fascist who favors BAD business policies that went out of style in 1960, has the maturity and focus of a toddler, triggers rape survivors with his words and behavior and has absolutely zero knowledge of politics and can't formulate a coherent though - THAT guy is looking good now", then I just don't know what to do with that.

Still, I suspect we can agree on some fundamentals. We support the constitution. We are in favor of civil rights. I'll even side with you and say that punching Nazis should be punished because it is assault, so you can win this thread.

But I don't think that dissent is harming the cause. I think dissent should be louder, stronger, and more diligent. And I'm working on that every day.

I agree with you - America really does have a brilliant foundation, and the longer I live here the more I despair of the groups that seem intent to ruin that foundation.

But civil rights - defending them means defending the rights of people you so disagree with that punching them in the face seems like a good idea. Spender is an abject fuckwad whose badly-beaten corpse I would not p*ss on if it was on fire. BUT he has rights - and they're just as important as yours and mine. I disagree with everything he says, probably most of what he thinks, and doubtless I'd find his interior decorating abhorrent also. BUT if I say "I believe in civil rights" I must stand to uphold those of people I can't stand. He has the right to spout whatever garbage he likes - and so do I. Neither of us has the right to lamp the other guy because of what he says or thinks. If the rule of law is to be upheld, if he lamps me then my response cannot be to tw@ him back. We have laws that say "if you lamp someone then expect to be arrested for assault." Regardless of your feelings about the police, the fact is that they are supposed to be there to make sure that if you do get lamped then the lamper gets arrested. Taking matters into your own hands does not further anyone's cause - least of all the self-styled anarchists, most of whom don't actually want anarchy, rather they just want carte blanche to destroy whatever they like and participate in the Great Starbucks Trashing circle-jerk (always amuses me to see people who claim to be anti-business drinking Starbucks lattes and tweating on their iPhones - way to miss the point, numbnuts).

America was built on dissent, and the fact that the right to dissent is enshrined in the country's very foundation speaks volumes. And yes, if the left is ever to claw its way back from the edge of the abyss then it must find ways to make that dissent louder, stronger, and more diligent. And yes, Trump is the symptom of a disease - a sickness of lack of political engagement, of the politics of the soundbite, of the "he's what's wrong with this country" finger-pointing without actually offering any kind of alternative. The Democrats spent 8 years under Bush stabbing themselves in the back - if (and it's a big if) they expect to win in 2020 then they have to get their sh*t together. Stop behaving llike the office is a right and start recognising it as a privilege. People turned to Trump because when you're dying of thirst you're prepared to drink weedkiller. And that's the disease that has to be stopped. He's justifiable as a choice because there was no choice. He managed to position himself as the underdog, they guy the GOP machine wanted to shut out, and who wasn't in the pockets of Wall Street. And he managed to make believe believe him.

The left in Britain spent almost 20 years trying to find a way to get into power, and the only way they could manage it was by painting themselves as slightly less godawful than the Tories. Blair's legacy of illegal wars and complicity in war crimes, and then the Lib/Con pact under Cameron, pretty much guarantees that no-one anywhere near the left will have a sniff of power for a generation.
If the Democrats want a shot in 4 years then they have to take a long hard look at who they are and the country that they want to preside over. And I for one have some serious doubts about that ever happening. There are far too many people whose silver spoons depend on patronage, pork-barrels, and knowledge of buried skeletons to ever consider tearing the party down and rebuilding from the ground up. America's entrenched 2-party system sees to it that it's either rich godawful motherfuckers in power, or rich godawful motherfuckers who are pretending to be something else. You want real change? Grow up and out of polar politics and adopt a system of consensus. Make it in peoples' interests to work with each other, instead of trying to tear each others' faces off. Remind your government that they rule at your behest, and in your name, and you can kick them out of their cushy offices as easily as you put them in. Making voting compulsory, get business out of politics, ban any donation higher than let's say $10,000 and all donations from businesses (and business is not people). And let me know how that works out for you - because one thing I've noticed is that there's lots of people who want to change things, "when I get into power I will..." but oddly, once they actually get to the top of the greasy pole, their zeal for change peculiarly evaporates, gone like a fart in a hurricane.
If you think you can change the system, more power to you. I applaud you. But I won't be putting any money on your chances just yet. The best we can hope for is that Trump is so awful, so destructive, so poisonous, so divisive, that he himself sows the seeds of his own destruction. And I"m not putting any money on that either.

The majority of Americans are too lazy, ignorant, and just plain stupid for all that, though, EB. The small pockets of intellect, passion, and compassion are dwarfed by flyover and Deliverance. And *they* have guns.