Heartland

At the risk of givng it all away, I had long stopped paying attention even before Floodland, so I wasn't aware of either's existence, never mind their "significance", until a few years ago when I was in a very boring job and had far too much time on my hands to trawl the net. Bought them both, of course, as soon as I found out, and was less than impressed with the obvious US orientation of the sound of Vision Thing, but came to understand he was trying to get their attention, so they'd listen to what he had to say. Perhaps I'm oversimplifying things, and at the risk of starting an old debate (which I've never fully heard), shouldn't he have made the lyrics a bit more monosyllabic if he really wanted to make his point? Did the average Amercian take any notice?

Thrash Harry wrote:Did the average Amercian take any notice?

No, we're all stupid. Duh.

On a related note, Bush has been in town of late, and I have witnessed loads of motherf*ckers in motorcades. Life imitating art, my friends...or perhaps just history repeating itself?

I agree that the overall sound of vision thing is U.S orientated whether deliberate or not ? but lyrically it doesn't sound like cosying up to the American market to me on the contrary. What ? getting their attention so they can be insulted ? Be slapped around by their warmongering and their materialism ? Or have I missed the point of Vision Thing completely ? I hardly ever listen to it so it wouldn't surprise me.

CorpPunk wrote:

Thrash Harry wrote:Did the average Amercian take any notice?

No, we're all stupid. Duh.

On a related note, Bush has been in town of late, and I have witnessed loads of motherf*ckers in motorcades. Life imitating art, my friends...or perhaps just history repeating itself?

No offence meant, my friend. I think you'll find the average British citizen thinks The Sisters are just a bunch of dodgy Goths, even assuming they've heard of them. I doubt they ever appeared on the front page of The Sun or The News Of The World. (Do I need to explain that or would that appear patronising as well?)

Thrash Harry wrote:

CorpPunk wrote:

Thrash Harry wrote:Did the average Amercian take any notice?

No, we're all stupid. Duh.

On a related note, Bush has been in town of late, and I have witnessed loads of motherf*ckers in motorcades. Life imitating art, my friends...or perhaps just history repeating itself?

No offence meant, my friend. I think you'll find the average British citizen thinks The Sisters are just a bunch of dodgy Goths, even assuming they've heard of them. I doubt they ever appeared on the front page of The Sun or The News Of The World. (Do I need to explain that or would that appear patronising as well?)

No offence taken.

They are dodgy goths, they're just in denial. But I wouldn't mind seeing AE, or even Adam, on Page 3 (if they published men, that is).

No explanation needed, dearie.

karin wrote:What ? getting their attention so they can be insulted ? Be slapped around by their warmongering and their materialism ? Or have I
missed the point of Vision Thing completely ?

It seems like one of us has!

karin wrote:I hardly ever listen to it so it wouldn't surprise me.

Nor do I, though I do think Something Fast is excellent. Witty title as in "Play something fast" and the "Hail Mary" joke is very funny, but then I'm a (very) lapsed Catholic, so it's bound to strike a chord.

Thrash Harry wrote:

karin wrote:What ? getting their attention so they can be insulted ? Be slapped around by their warmongering and their materialism ? Or have I
missed the point of Vision Thing completely ?

It seems like one of us has!

karin wrote:I hardly ever listen to it so it wouldn't surprise me.

Nor do I, though I do think Something Fast is excellent. Witty title as in "Play something fast" and the "Hail Mary" joke is very funny, but then I'm a (very) lapsed Catholic, so it's bound to strike a chord.

One of us has missed the point ? must be you then . I don't think the Hailing Marys joke is funny at all but then I was brought up aetheist. 'Ribbons' is the only tune which endures for me. As for the rest it's too blokey bloke. Cock Rock sisters' style when us girls know subtlety is what it's all about.

CorpPunk wrote:They are dodgy goths, they're just in denial.

Surely Eldritch takes himself too seriously to ever cut it as a Goth?

karin wrote:One of us has missed the point ? must be you then

Very possibly. That's the reason for this post. I don't think it's a particularly impressive addition to their arsenal, but I'm hoping someone will disagree and explain why. I'm not gonna argue about it. Just want to understand what the appeal is.

karin wrote:

Thrash Harry wrote:

karin wrote:What ? getting their attention so they can be insulted ? Be slapped around by their warmongering and their materialism ? Or have I
missed the point of Vision Thing completely ?

It seems like one of us has!

karin wrote:I hardly ever listen to it so it wouldn't surprise me.

Nor do I, though I do think Something Fast is excellent. Witty title as in "Play something fast" and the "Hail Mary" joke is very funny, but then I'm a (very) lapsed Catholic, so it's bound to strike a chord.

One of us has missed the point ? must be you then . I don't think the Hailing Marys joke is funny at all but then I was brought up aetheist. 'Ribbons' is the only tune which endures for me. As for the rest it's too blokey bloke. Cock Rock sisters' style when us girls know subtlety is what it's all about.

Hey! Nothing wrong with blokey bloke cock rock !! (and I feel Jim would agree with me here )

Thrash Harry wrote:At the risk of givng it all away, I had long stopped paying attention even before Floodland, so I wasn't aware of either's existence, never mind their "significance", until a few years ago when I was in a very boring job and had far too much time on my hands to trawl the net. Bought them both, of course, as soon as I found out, and was less than impressed with the obvious US orientation of the sound of Vision Thing, but came to understand he was trying to get their attention, so they'd listen to what he had to say. Perhaps I'm oversimplifying things, and at the risk of starting an old debate (which I've never fully heard), shouldn't he have made the lyrics a bit more monosyllabic if he really wanted to make his point? Did the average Amercian take any notice?

Hi Thrash!

After 9 months of recording and mixing, Vision Thing didn't turn out how wanted it to sound, so he went back to the earlier mixes, which is why it's more "rock" than he originally intended.

Back in 1992 when he got interviewed by Paul King of MTV's 120 Minutes ( ) he was asked if VT was aimed at the American market, to which he replied to do that he'd have to release an instrumental album!

I think he thought it was time to get a band back together especially after the glorious solo effort of Floodland (sorry Patsy).

What do you think of Floodland anyway?

Regards
Big Si

Si

Thanks for that.

Big Si wrote:What do you think of Floodland anyway?

I'd agree that it's their best album, but I'd also have to say that statement doesn't prove much. First And Last was disappointing to say the least. God, how many albums did it take Pink Floyd before they disappeared into their own navels and he manages it on the first one! At least most of the lyrics in Floodland and Vision Thing aren't about the first person singular. I suppose First And Last sounds more like a complete work because it's all rather dull, whereas the other two sound like a collection of songs. Some good, some not so good. Dominion/ Mother Russia and Flood I and II seem to sit well together while Lucretia and This Corrosion stand out. More and Something Fast are about the only two I'd defend in an argument on Vision Thing. The Sisters have always been a dance band to me. The Reptile House is the only work of any length that I think really hangs together. But hey, it's just my opinion and probably a case of right place, right time. Favourites tend to result from more than just the music/ lyrics, right?

I think Vision Thing is a creative gamble that doesn't pay off. It's supposed to be a wolf in sheep's clothing - the lyrics are actually more political than anything since the Reptile House, but the music is much more 'accessible'. I like it for the lyrics, which are well worth paying close attention to. I actually dislike the sound of the songs which are most cock-rock sounding (Detonation Boulevard, When you don't see me, doctor jeep, vision thing). But I do like the songs which sound the most like the Sisters (Ribbons, More, Something Fast, I was Wrong).

To me, the reason why the album was a failed experiment was simply this: the Sisters don't (usually) sound like anyone else. They have their own soundscape, which is enigmatic and slightly mysterious and hard to put your finger on, and doesn't always transfer onto record well. But it's a big part of the experience of listening to the Sisters - for me at least. But with Vision Thing, although the lyrical power was preserved, this sound was jettisoned, and at least half of the record just sounded like Eldritch questing on someone else's record. Which was obviously very disappointing to a lot of people at the time...

Lets not beat around the Bush - Vision Thing is a big pile of smelly pants.

Tinkerbell wrote:

karin wrote:

Thrash Harry wrote: It seems like one of us has!
Nor do I, though I do think Something Fast is excellent. Witty title as in "Play something fast" and the "Hail Mary" joke is very funny, but then I'm a (very) lapsed Catholic, so it's bound to strike a chord.

One of us has missed the point ? must be you then . I don't think the Hailing Marys joke is funny at all but then I was brought up aetheist. 'Ribbons' is the only tune which endures for me. As for the rest it's too blokey bloke. Cock Rock sisters' style when us girls know subtlety is what it's all about.

Hey! Nothing wrong with blokey bloke cock rock !! (and I feel Jim would agree with me here )

Nothing wrong with a bit of either....

Thankyou all for you input. Since Si brought the subject up, what's your take on Floodland? Does it really rate as one of the best albums of the 80s and, if so, why? Once again. Not up for an argument, just trying to catch up on what I've missed.

Thrash Harry wrote:Thankyou all for you input. Since Si brought the subject up, what's your take on Floodland? Does it really rate as one of the best albums of the 80s and, if so, why? Once again. Not up for an argument, just trying to catch up on what I've missed.

Definitely best Sisters album until the next one arrives!

[quote="Black Shuck"]Lets not beat around the Bush - Vision Thing is a big pile of smelly pants.[/quote]

Smelly pants always a hazard when you beat around the bush.

*takes cover*

Major de Coverly wrote:

Black Shuck wrote:Lets not beat around the Bush - Vision Thing is a big pile of smelly pants.

Smelly pants always a hazard when you beat around the bush.

*takes cover*

Phew- was mainly taking cover from you! Bit juvenile I know.

Floodland. Best album ever, never mind the eighties. It's one big licky lollipop of a record.

I really like Vision Thing, I'm not going to defend it, but I will support it.

Thrash Harry wrote:

karin wrote:One of us has missed the point ? must be you then

Very possibly. That's the reason for this post. I don't think it's a particularly impressive addition to their arsenal, but I'm hoping someone will disagree and explain why. I'm not gonna argue about it. Just want to understand what the appeal is.

The appeal is to those of us who understand where Eldritch is coming from - ie, the Stooges, Motorhead, 70s Bowie. Plus his avowed love of Gary Glitter, Screaming Blue Messiahs, etc. I don't listen to the Sisters for any hokey G*th pretenses, I know that vampires aren't real, I don't wear fru-fru pirate shirts. I like rock. And I prefer mine with a dash of intelligence, mostly. Vision Thing is just 8 great songs. Some are to be taken more seriously than others - Ribbons vs Dr Jeep.
See, I doubt that good ol' Von has a collection of Anne Rice books on his shelf. He's well versed in his existentialist writers - Heidegger, Kierkegaard, Nietzche, etc. So, what's wrong with mixing that and a little rump-shaking pseudo AC/DC?

shivarising wrote:

Thrash Harry wrote:

karin wrote:One of us has missed the point ? must be you then

Very possibly. That's the reason for this post. I don't think it's a particularly impressive addition to their arsenal, but I'm hoping someone will disagree and explain why. I'm not gonna argue about it. Just want to understand what the appeal is.

The appeal is to those of us who understand where Eldritch is coming from - ie, the Stooges, Motorhead, 70s Bowie. Plus his avowed love of Gary Glitter, Screaming Blue Messiahs, etc. I don't listen to the Sisters for any hokey G*th pretenses, I know that vampires aren't real, I don't wear fru-fru pirate shirts. I like rock. And I prefer mine with a dash of intelligence, mostly. Vision Thing is just 8 great songs. Some are to be taken more seriously than others - Ribbons vs Dr Jeep.
See, I doubt that good ol' Von has a collection of Anne Rice books on his shelf. He's well versed in his existentialist writers - Heidegger, Kierkegaard, Nietzche, etc. So, what's wrong with mixing that and a little rump-shaking pseudo AC/DC?

Couldn't agree with that more.

shivarising wrote:

Thrash Harry wrote:

karin wrote:One of us has missed the point ? must be you then

Very possibly. That's the reason for this post. I don't think it's a particularly impressive addition to their arsenal, but I'm hoping someone will disagree and explain why. I'm not gonna argue about it. Just want to understand what the appeal is.

The appeal is to those of us who understand where Eldritch is coming from - ie, the Stooges, Motorhead, 70s Bowie. Plus his avowed love of Gary Glitter, Screaming Blue Messiahs, etc. I don't listen to the Sisters for any hokey G*th pretenses, I know that vampires aren't real, I don't wear fru-fru pirate shirts. I like rock. And I prefer mine with a dash of intelligence, mostly. Vision Thing is just 8 great songs. Some are to be taken more seriously than others - Ribbons vs Dr Jeep.
See, I doubt that good ol' Von has a collection of Anne Rice books on his shelf. He's well versed in his existentialist writers - Heidegger, Kierkegaard, Nietzche, etc. So, what's wrong with mixing that and a little rump-shaking pseudo AC/DC?

Some interesting points. Even assuming Eldritch always intended The Sisters to be a metal band, I would suggest he was up against 2 major obstacles in the early 80s:

a) No drummer - Meatloaf got away with poking fun at the genre, but claiming to be a metal band without a drummer was just taking the p*ss.

b) Lyrical content - no doubt you can prove me wrong here, but metal was more about the music than the lyrics - Zeppelin are a prime example.

Consequently, The Sisters were never going to be accepted as a metal band. We know they didn't take themselves too seriously, but, presumably, they didn't want to be mocked either. The Goth thing just happened to be around. The Sisters sound was hard to define, they had met at the F club, (apparently the centre of the post-punk alternative scene in Leeds) and Eldritch's vocals just made them prime candidates. They didn't seem to mind at the time. Those Goth girls were sexy as f**k! Presumably Ms Morrison's inclusion in the Floodland era videos helped sales, but, unfortunately, enshrined the image that Jo Public now associates them with. It wasn't seen as too much of a problem in the early days as Goth was primarily a fashion statement - both an escape from and reflection of the dullness of life of the dole in early 80s Britain. God knows when all this witchcraft stuff came in. It was never meant to be serious!

Metal for clever bastards and drummer optional. Perhaps that's the legacy of Vision Thing?