Heartland

Posted: **08 Dec 2020, 10:39**

...and by "heavily influenced" I mean they'd sneeze if von got a cold.

I feel a bit bad picking on The Merry Thoughts in particular; there must have been a hundred bands around in the 80s and 90s with a drum machine, guitars with heavy chorus effect, and a baritone singer, but after someone on one of the Farcebook groups mentioned them...

Is it just me? OK the covers are quite fun in a "what would it sound like if the Sisters covered Hazel O'Connor" kind of way, but their "original" material...

I guess I don't see the appeal of blatant copyism.

Posted: **08 Dec 2020, 12:54**

They didn't have a drum machine but Kiss The Blade bore more than a passing resemblance.

I bought this record because i liked the sleeve & was quite freaked out when I first played it.

Posted: **08 Dec 2020, 13:48**

oh christ, there were hundreds. pretty much any 2nd gen/3rd gen goth band from 88-94 ended up sounding like the sisters wannabes.

it seemed like any new goth band chose the sisters as their reference point - presumably because drum machines were cheap, thin guitar sounds were easy to reproduce, and bass guitars with a flanger sounded, well, sounded f**king amazing.

a couple of the bands from that era were ok (rosetta stone, for eg), and a couple of them even grew out of it and developed a slightly more original sound - or at least started copying a different band (rosetta stone, for eg) but most were dreadful (nosferatu, for eg)

the better ones were the ones that could write a song, had an ear for a hook or a groove, and had a singer who, if you handed him a bucket, could carry a tune in it

the worst ones were copying the sounds and production techniques (well, trying to) but without any sense of what made the sisters so utterly bastard groovy

the even worsterer ones had singers like TMT or KTB, where the singer was trying so hard to sing from deep in his boots that he was well out of his natural range, and ended up sounding forced, and a bit silly

Posted: **08 Dec 2020, 13:50**

and the guitar solo in that KTB song needs to get in the f**king sea

Posted: **08 Dec 2020, 18:04**

I believe Peter Steele of Type O Negative mentioned that he sang in a rather deep tenor thanks to being inspired by one Andrew Eldritch. And of course as Markfiend has mentioned The Merry Thoughts pretty much sound like a discount Sisters of Mercy. Not to give them too much grief since I actually enjoy a couple of their songs but the similarities are too many to count. Even the lead singer tried to pull off a Vision Thing era Eldritch look lol.

Posted: **08 Dec 2020, 20:43**

I quite like KTB... I have a promo tape here somewhere

Posted: **08 Dec 2020, 21:42**

According to Tommy Lee in The Dirt even Nikki Sixx went through an Andrew Erldritch phase. To be honest though, from the mid 80s onwards, AE did have a corker of an image.

Posted: **08 Dec 2020, 23:48**

Miazma tick a number of the boxes

Posted: **09 Dec 2020, 07:04**

My music has been heavily influenced by the Sisters since ‘85 and to this day I still record covers and throw them on the choobs. Sue me.

Plagiarism is the greatest form of flattery. Or something like that.

The original of anything is almost always the best, and unless you are completely inept you can’t help but being a little of yourself to the party, add your own twist to it. That’s inevitable. So even if it’s heavily influenced there’s gotta be a tiny bit of something unique. I haven’t heard any of the bands mentioned here so I have no opinion of just how good/bad they are but I don’t really see any great problem with it.

I mean how many bands sounded like their predecessors throughout history. Back in the 60s loads of bands were trying to do the Merseybeat thing

Posted: **09 Dec 2020, 08:32**

For a long selection of derivitave goth....

Some of the names are just dreadful. Goths really cannot name bands. Mascara Osiris? Really? Other than Creeping Death I’ve not heard any of these before. Rosetta Stone was named above so I know you guys are familiar with them. How many of the other bands do you recognize?

Posted: **09 Dec 2020, 11:19**

blimey, some right old bands there @DJElectricDaddy

what a blast from the past!

for the folks who don't click the youtube link, so will miss the description, here's the full running order:

Playlist: 80 songs (short music samples):
00:01 (1989) Eyes Of The Nightmare Jungle (de) - Shadow Dance
02:39 (1989) Love Like Blood (de) - Doomsday
04:18 (1989) Ravencathaus (uk) - Burning
06:11 (1989) The Preachers of Twilight (fr) - Indigo Script
08:27 (1990) Preachers Of Sadness (de) - Omega
11:03 (1990) The Attainment Of Nirvana (de) - Desperate
13:40 (1990) The Red Badge Of Courage (de) - Into The Past
15:25 (1990) The Ancestry (uk) - Primeval Grace
17:48 (1991) Calling Dead Red Roses (de) - Creeping Death
20:57 (1991) The Tors of Dartmoor (de) - Waterking
25:04 (1991) The Wake R.S.V. (us) - Phoenix Dance
27:54 (1991) Rosetta Stone (uk) - Leave Me For Dead
30:36 (1992) Earth Calling Angela (uk) - Angela
33:39 (1992) Flower of Sin (it) - Black Shadow
37:32 (1992) Forthcoming Fire (de) - Feuer
41:20 (1992) Still Patient (de) - Mascara Osiris
44:48 (1992) The Angina Pectoris (de) - Disconsolate
47:53 (1992) The Preachers of Neverland (se) - Bleed For Me
50:44 (1992) Restoration (uk) - Eternity
54:26 (1992) Gethsemane (uk) - Betrayal
58:07 (1992) Deviate Ladies (it) - Lyturgical Obsession (Tentacula)
1:01:20 (1992) The Flowers Of Sacrifice (uk) - Dark Carnival
1:03:50 (1993) Revenant Eve (uk) - Pyre
1:06:56 (1993) Redemption (uk) - Lilith
1:08:59 (1993) Return To Khaf'ji (uk) - Today
1:13:09 (1993) Restoration II (uk) - Entwined
1:15:34 (1993) Catherines Cathedral (se) - Tortured
1:18:10 (1993) Bay Laurel (se) - In Nothingness
1:20:33 (1993) The Garden Of Delight (de) - Shared Creation
1:24:08 (1993) The Wake (us) - Sideshow
1:27:13 (1993) Nosferatu (uk) - Dark Angel
1:30:20 (1993) The Merry Thoughts (de) - Pale Empress
1:32:58 (1994) Age of Heaven (de) - The Providence
1:36:47 (1994) Paralysed Age (de) - Bloodsucker
1:39:41 (1994) Suspiria (uk) - Allegedly, Dancefloor Tragedy
1:43:39 (1994) Subterfuge (au) - Darkland Awakening
1:48:29 (1994) Ikon (au) - Black Roses
1:51:17 (1994) Children On Stun (uk) - Cats or Devils Eyes
1:54:09 (1994) Big Electric Cat (au) - Paris Skyes
1:57:06 (1994) Witching Hour (uk) - She's Alive
2:00:23 (1994) La Guillotina (es) - El Lugar
2:02:58 (1994) Cream 8 (de) - Water Feels So Comfortably Warm
2:05:27 (1995) Different Tendencies (de) - Follow The Word
2:08:10 (1995) Holylore (it) - Zephira
2:12:35 (1995) Crape Deity (fr) - Falling Into Oblivion
2:16:39 (1995) Brotherhood Of Pagans - Resurrection
2:20:01 (1995) Nightmoves (uk) - Voices
2:23:22 (1995) Witches' Rune (it) - Twilight
2:25:55 (1995) Meridian (au) - Dreams Unveiled
2:28:26 (1995) All Living Fear (uk) - Crimson
2:31:05 (1995) This Vale Of Tears (be) - Higher Spirits
2:33:52 (1995) Revolution By Night (uk) - A Kiss For Dust II
2:36:45 (1995) Sons Of Neverland (se) - Amnesia
2:39:19 (1996) Crudeness (de) - Brothers and Sisters
2:43:38 (1996) Lady Besery's Garden (de) - Arlene
2:46:41 (1996) Erato (be) - Sweet Killing
2:49:26 (1996) Messiah Of Pain (es) - Circles
2:52:42 (1996) Remembrance (es) - Your Sex, My Agony
2:55:51 (1996) Pictures Of Agony (de) - Vale Of Ice
2:58:41 (1996) Seraphin Twin (uk) - Rebirth
3:01:54 (1996) Die Laughing (uk) - Labrynthine
3:04:47 (1996) Vendemmian (uk) - Transition
3:07:23 (1996) The Tortured (uk) - Handful Of Dust
3:09:52 (1996) The House Of Usher (de) - Damaged
3:12:27 (1996) Malaise (se) - Wait For The Ghost
3:15:14 (1997) Beyond The Wall Of Sleep (de) - Pale
3:17:09 (1997) Kindred Spirits (se) - Devil
3:19:17 (1997) Disjecta Membra (nz) - Cauldron of Cerridwen
3:21:36 (1997) 13 Candles (uk) - Death Awaits You (Dracula The Undead)
3:25:01 (1997) Inkubus Sukkubus (uk) - Heart Of Lilith
3:27:55 (1997) Capital Hell (de) - My God
3:30:09 (1997) Star Industry (be) - Nineties
3:32:52 (1997) Emma Conquest (uk) - Such Pretty Things (Scary Darey Mix)
3:35:39 (1998) Funhouse (se) - The Second Coming
3:38:18 (1999) Judith (us) - Of a Heaven (What Remains)
3:40:34 (1999) The Eternal Chapter (za) - Outside
3:43:09 (1999) Passion Play (uk) - Down To You
3:45:59 (1999) The Escape (de) - Psychosis
3:49:02 (1999) Morbid Poetry (de) - Train
3:51:43 (1999) The Faces Of Sarah (uk) - Belief

i had that ancestry tape, and a couple of their 12"s. mates of rosetta irc

had a couple of wake rsv tracks knocking about on old nightbreed compilations - they were bobbins

pretty sure i've seen gethsemane live (mm, yeah kill me now)

redemption? well, the less aid about them the better eh @sam donut ?

children on stun - saw them a few times supporting rosetta, and have a couple of singles, but never really got them

13 candles - another bobbins Nightbreed band

inkubus sukkubus - just, yuk. was never a fan of theirs

all living fear - i believe matt @allfear is on here somewhere or was anyway.

suspiria - i quite liked their first album. it was a bit s**t but made me chuckle. they had a couple of good tunes iirc, and a sense of humour listening to that now god he wants to sound like early CD era rozz williams

still a groove though!

think i saw faces of sarah live at the phono in leeds once - utter s**t iirc

vendemmian - pretty sure one or more of them are on here too? didn't one of them end up being in NFD and then eden house?

star industry -- god that song used to get hammered at the phono in the early/mid 90s

i think i know of die laughing, but would probably rather not

big electric cat always used to rock up on cheap goth compilations, and that's probably where they belong

and nosferatu were just utter, utter dross. i remember seeing them when they played the banshee and they rocked up in a hearse

we all stood outside and took the p*ss.

[edit] Seraphin Twin - think i might have known these guys back in the day. they sound very blue water/preacherman era nephilim on this track. have heard much worse tbf

likewise i think i knew some of the guys from restoration - a midlands thing i think? friends with storm constantine iirc[/edit]

Posted: **09 Dec 2020, 12:30**

Quiff Boy wrote: ↑09 Dec 2020, 11:19 blimey, some right old bands there @DJElectricDaddy

redemption? well, the less aid about them the better eh @sam donut ?

Ha ha! I had noticed that, but kept my trap shut. Ooh don't I look young leaning against that tree

Quiff Boy wrote: ↑09 Dec 2020, 11:19
children on stun - saw them a few times supporting rosetta, and have a couple of singles, but never really got them

I used to love Children On Stun... they were really nice blokes and I thought that they were great live!

Quiff Boy wrote: ↑09 Dec 2020, 11:19
inkubus sukkubus - just, yuk. was never a fan of theirs

Yeah, not for me, either.

Quiff Boy wrote: ↑09 Dec 2020, 11:19
i think i know of die laughing, but would probably rather not

Another band I liked. We played with them a lot and they were lovely people and Rachel can't half sing.

Quiff Boy wrote: ↑09 Dec 2020, 11:19
and nosferatu were just utter, utter dross. i remember seeing them when they played the banshee and they rocked up in a hearse we all stood outside and took the p*ss.

Yeah, also played with them a few times. They were less friendly. Looked funny though.

Posted: **09 Dec 2020, 12:58**

sam donut wrote: ↑09 Dec 2020, 12:30 Ha ha! I had noticed that, but kept my trap shut. Ooh don't I look young leaning against that tree

very

Posted: **09 Dec 2020, 13:20**

@sam donut do you think Chris would be gutted or relieved Ketamine didn't make it onto that youtube vid?

Posted: **09 Dec 2020, 13:22**

Rosetta Stone got a bit of stick for it back in the day as well: I guess copying the typeface and layout of the records will do that.

Alien Sex Fiend did a fantastic pastiche of the layout on their Smells Like... single: "A Merciful Relief, rise up and wipe yer bum". Extra marks for ripping off art from Otto Sump's Ugly Clinic. https://www.discogs.com/Alien-Sex-Fiend ... se/1102450

Posted: **09 Dec 2020, 13:41**

mh wrote: ↑09 Dec 2020, 13:22 Rosetta Stone got a bit of stick for it back in the day as well: I guess copying the typeface and layout of the records will do that.

oh aye, they were quite up front about it all - they did it for a laugh

they shared a flat with ramone - the original "eskimo" mish fan (and the reason their fans were called eskimos) - who ended up being their manager for a while

ramone was on here for a while, and divulged a few sillynesses they used to get up to

for eg, there's "live" version of one of their songs used on a single b-side, but it's a rerecorded studio version and the crowd noise is from a sisters boot. iirc you can hear someone in the audience shout body electric

way before porl decided to be One Of Those People On The Internet, i think they used to have a sense of humour about what they were doing

Posted: **09 Dec 2020, 13:48**

here we go:

Ramone wrote: ↑04 Aug 2009, 14:47 All my favourite Sisters songs have been narrowed down to live versions. For instance..

Floorshow : Sweden 1985 ( So awesome that Rosetta Stone stole the crowd reaction from it for one of their 'live' recordings)

"Deeper (live)"

Crowd noise from this boot, apparently:

Posted: **09 Dec 2020, 14:26**

Quiff Boy wrote: ↑09 Dec 2020, 13:20 @sam donut do you think Chris would be gutted or relieved Ketamine didn't make it onto that youtube vid?

Openly delighted but secretly gutted is my guess

Posted: **09 Dec 2020, 14:29**

Quiff Boy wrote: ↑09 Dec 2020, 13:41
way before porl decided to be One Of Those People On The Internet, i think they used to have a sense of humour about what they were doing

Yeah, I think "Same s**t, Different Decade" was a fairly open and humorous appraisal of what was going on

Posted: **09 Dec 2020, 14:38**

Another thing about Rosetta Stone: they always used to go to the Pink Parrot club in Liverpool and only ever dance to The Sisters... or their own songs

Posted: **09 Dec 2020, 17:47**

Man you guys never fail to amaze me with the depth of your knowledge of gothica obscurium. I proper feel like on of those postcard punks

Posted: **09 Dec 2020, 17:57**

Blimmin dodgy darklings, as a wise man once said, no wonder us groovy 80's bods ran a mile from them, admittedly in our pointy chelsea booties

Now I did have a soft spot for Rosetta Stone, maybe through fellow Birkonian loyalty as I simply must have bumped into them in Stairways. Their cover of 'When The Levee Breaks' often got a spin.

Rose Of Avalanche got a big tick from me as their sixties influences outweighed any Leeds 6 derivation.

Posted: **09 Dec 2020, 18:21**

Honestly never heard of most of those bands !

Posted: **09 Dec 2020, 18:39**

I'd almost forgotten about Rose of Avalanche. I don't consider them as blatant copycats as others, although there is at least once instance where their own mothers wouldn't be able to tell them apart - check out the intro to LA Rain and tell me that's not the Sisters take on Emma.

Posted: **09 Dec 2020, 20:37**

OLDFART wrote: ↑09 Dec 2020, 18:21 Honestly never heard of most of those bands !

That's because about 80% of them never made it past recording demo tapes and playing to venues of 30 people

Also, it was early to mid 90s, so many of the older goff types had started to go to other types of gigs (industrial, techno, grebo, indie etc)

Heartland

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