Heartland

On almost everything about The Sisters from 2000 onwards, I continue to see on ever increasing amount of comments about what The Sisters and Eldritch in particular "have become" in their "descent".
These comments have begun to irritate me more and more so as the annoying self-important individual I am I decided I must write a piece on my opinion about this, because that's what everyone needs, right? Another opinion.
The first and most obvious complaint is Edritch's voice. Ok, I'll be the first to admit it wasn't as it was... back in 1985! Now this is not to say it is impossible to sustain a good voice through a period of fourty or so years, it's been done by many many vocalists, just pick and name your favourite as you so choose. However, you have to be fair to his situation as a long time drug user and smoker, this will have obviously have taken a toll on himself and his voice. Though you have to remember that many of The Sisters best songs were written about these things, so in a way, you cannot have one without the other. The man is also now 62 years old, and it can simply should be considered how us ourselves would be be doing under these circumstances, how they still play to thousand strong audiences after over 40 years. Whether he does or doesn't have the money to sit on his arse he is still out there touring for whoever wishes to see him, and still regularly pulls in audiences of over a thousand people. The next issue that some argue is that this is simply lack of effort. I don't see this, I see someone who still cares massively about his fans, and has simply adopted or developed a very different vocal style that is perhaps much less melodic or more growly, based on what he can and can't still do vocally and many people (perhaps rightly) do not care for this. This is ok, but what I find an issue with is the fact that on these live videos, no one made you watch this. If you don't like how The Sisters sound now, don't watch it. Some of these people don't seem to understand that it is simply not October 1984 anymore.
The other issue I see being commented on the most is the lack of a bass player. There are two issues I have with this. There seems to be some kind of shock or longing for change on this, which I do not understand, since TSOM has not had a bass player for nearly 30 years, since 1992. For anyone who is such a huge fan as these people seem to insinuate, how is this such a shock? I also think that the bass is still very audible in all of these pieces of live footage, so I see minimal source of complaint for this. It is what it is and it has been this way since Tony James left at the end of the Tune In Turn On Load Out tour. (Of course bass has been played live since, for example by Ben Christo on "Never Land")
The final major complaint I see is the chance in sound with "lazy heavy metal guitars". I also see that Eldritch has embraced this kind of style as early as 1990 on Vision Thing, or if that's not explicit enough, on the single Temple of Love (1992). These releases clearly have much heavier styles of guitar playing than previous releases, and again should not be a surprise and should it be a surprise that a 40+ year old band has gone through stylistic changes? Do you really want everything to remain the same? Acknowledging the glory of the Black October tour is one thing, insisting The Sisters should be the same is another. I think the majority of this boils down to two things; it isn't 1984 anymore and if you don't like it you don't have to listen to it.
Take this with a grain of salt if you like, this is just a complaint about complaints. Most of this was written on the toilet, think what you wish.

There's fair criticism and unfair. What particularly strikes me is the number of people who base their negativity on crappily-recorded videos posted to YouTube. There were plenty of badly-recorded shows in 83/84/85 too. Sound quality on any given night can be highly variable, and can often depend on factors outside the bands control, but actually going to the shows and actually hearing the band in the flesh, then comparing that to what you hear on a subsequent YouTube upload, can be wildly different experiences.

On Eldritch's voice, the growl/snarl thing actually started coming in during the Vision Thing era, and the evidence is there all over live recordings from 1990/91. The big thing nowadays is that he seems to no longer be able to hit the higher notes, and needs help from his backing vocalists. Like you say, that's OK - he is 62 and hasn't always been a good boy. In person his speaking voice seems much the same.

I'm in the camp that would love a full time bass player. When the bass does come out, on Never Land or Romeo Down for example, the sound is just so much more powerful. I'd love to hear Crash and Burn, Summer or the newer songs with that kind of power.

The band is s**t, the songs are s**t, the sound is s**t. At least Chris has gone.

I only go for the merch. Still holding out for a tea service

It's all elitist bullspit from my perspective, "You can't be a real Sisters fan unless you were one of the five people at this gig in 1982" kinda thing. There have always been problems with Eldritch's voice. There have always been problems with the sound. There has never been a live bass guitarist. (OK that last one isn't true but you get the idea.)

People just like to complain.

I met some people who liked the 'idea' of the sisters more than the band itself.
Some of them were stuck in 1985 and would say anything other than the FALAA formation isn't worth listening to, most of them weren't even around during that time, but they have now this idol-like image in their heads of what the sisters should look like.

My personal take?
- Von's voice was always a hit or miss, and IMHO, even on the 'bad days', he can still sign live better than some other pricks I saw.

- I do miss a full-time bassist, and I'd love to see Chris filling this position, but as we know, that's really not happening, at this point, the band has had the Dok playing bass for longer than any other period of time with an actual bass player, so I'd go as far as to say that whatever we have in terms of bass now is the de-facto bass sound of the band whether we like it or not.

- The band sounds fine, if anything better now, I understand the criticism on the 'metal sound', though it's a natural evolution and you can actually can follow the guitars getting heavier album after album, what we have today is a post-vision-thing incarnation, and that's just lovely.
In contrast, just take a listen to the mish live, it ain't bad per-se, but by god, the 12-string-chorus-y guitar gets old fast, it feels like a lousy excuse to sound like the sisters in 85.

TL;DR: the sisters used to be good, they still are f**king good, but they also used to be.

1984 good times anything after that is a bit meh fanboy apart from that one in 2003/05/09/11/15 etc..

I think its just general disappointment there have been so few releases and this turns to frustration.
I quite like how they perform nowadays.... but I think AE is definetely is on auto pilot which is a shame. When I look at his contempories Nick Cave, Peter Murphy, That Guitarist etc they still all seem to be artists who try new things and develop themselves. This could be financially motivated or they just like taking risks. Whatever the reason it shows they are still working.

GC wrote: ↑05 Jan 2022, 18:55 I think its just general disappointment there have been so few releases and this turns to frustration.
I quite like how they perform nowadays.... but I think AE is definetely is on auto pilot which is a shame. When I look at his contempories Nick Cave, Peter Murphy, That Guitarist etc they still all seem to be artists who try new things and develop themselves. This could be financially motivated or they just like taking risks. Whatever the reason it shows they are still working.

I agree with the statement, not so much with the list of artists.
I do agree that Nick Cave is in this hall of artists that are still developing themselves.
Now, Peter Murphy is another one in the hit-or-miss category IMHO, sometimes he's in good mood and will put a hell of a gig, other times is 100% autopilot, all that while insulting the audience ( I mean, two years ago he literally called someone in the crowd a French-canadian twit, which is not a smart move in Québec tbh).

That Guitarist is also a hit-or-miss artist, after 30-and-something years on the road he's still bad with the lyrics (as even Gary Marx pointed out recently), but when he's not selling nostalgia to the audience (playing Marian and Garden of Delight, Serpent's kiss etc) nor to himself (Evangeline and Met-amor-phosis are a wee bit too sister-y innit) he's a great musician, his last album was brilliant and he did a good job venturing into EBM lands with Last Beat Of Your Heart.

Husek wrote: ↑05 Jan 2022, 19:29

GC wrote: ↑05 Jan 2022, 18:55 I think its just general disappointment there have been so few releases and this turns to frustration.
I quite like how they perform nowadays.... but I think AE is definetely is on auto pilot which is a shame. When I look at his contempories Nick Cave, Peter Murphy, That Guitarist etc they still all seem to be artists who try new things and develop themselves. This could be financially motivated or they just like taking risks. Whatever the reason it shows they are still working.

I agree with the statement, not so much with the list of artists.
I do agree that Nick Cave is in this hall of artists that are still developing themselves.
Now, Peter Murphy is another one in the hit-or-miss category IMHO, sometimes he's in good mood and will put a hell of a gig, other times is 100% autopilot, all that while insulting the audience ( I mean, two years ago he literally called someone in the crowd a French-canadian twit, which is not a smart move in Québec tbh).

That Guitarist is also a hit-or-miss artist, after 30-and-something years on the road he's still bad with the lyrics (as even Gary Marx pointed out recently), but when he's not selling nostalgia to the audience (playing Marian and Garden of Delight, Serpent's kiss etc) nor to himself (Evangeline and Met-amor-phosis are a wee bit too sister-y innit) he's a great musician, his last album was brilliant and he did a good job venturing into EBM lands with Last Beat Of Your Heart.

I think being hit and miss is part of the bargain when you start producing different output. Nick Cave for example is still developing artistically, but he kind of lost me around 2010, but many new others are still being drawn to him.

The frustration with the Sisters is that your basically seeing the same show since 2003 (yes there have been some new songs). A band like Therapy? for example are also a bit samey and every time I see them perform they mostly play their hits from Troublegum.... but you do also have new CD's now again which kind of keeps the complaints at bay (same could be said for Iron Maiden and a thousand other bands - people want to hear the hits at a concert and the diehards want new music).

Funny thing is I listen much more to Nephilim than the Sisters nowadays but am much less frustrated by their non release - why is this? Anybody else experience this?

Interesting to hear everyone's thoughts and they're all fair enough in different ways.

I find perhaps the 9 years or so since the last Nephilim albums feels like nothing in comparison (unless you're counting Prophecy 2016) and I guess more the fact that The Sisters are 99% likely, where as FOTN are just taking their time. The title track Mourning Sun is particularly mesmerising, but I find it interesting how that's also a fair step towards more "metal" type guitars too.

GC wrote: ↑05 Jan 2022, 19:52

Funny thing is I listen much more to Nephilim than the Sisters nowadays but am much less frustrated by their non release - why is this? Anybody else experience this?

I think it's that with the Sisters we know there are songs (more or less) ready to go. There's getting on for two albums worth of material where we've had to put up with bootlegs instead of decent recordings, plus however many more songs that haven't been played in public, which isn't the case with the Nephilim. Plus the Nephilim play very infrequently, much less then the girls, so I don't have the same sense of them being an active band anymore.

I find some of the fan's annoying, rather than Von's voice! So competitive, who saw them first etc. Who really cares? It's boring and the past!

Not all fan's because I've met a few that I can genuinely call "friend's"(you know who you are) and have a life outside The Sisters!

Here we are again, I think my views are known to most in the thread.

Will more than likely see some familiar faces if or when Leeds, Liverpool or Manchester gigs are announced. Future jaunts to London (or any real distance) seem unlikely for me and that's a shame.

Will be at t'Mish Deja Vu, next month, with the same 80's mates who a few of you shared a pub table with before the last Sisters Leeds gig.

I was introduced to The Sisters in the 4th year at secondary school, so I guess around sept/oct 1985, my best mate was really into the Goth scene, whilst I was into Venom and Motorhead, but i loved the sound of the Sisters and set about buying what I could of them. I loved the jingle-jangle darkness of it all and those sublime vocals. When Floodland came out I was absolutely gobsmacked by the sheer size of the sound and - of course fell big time for Patricia. When Vison Thing hit, I realised things had changed, I didn't like it as much, though still bought all the vinyls. Consequently my 'time bubble' of the band is very much contained in a certain era- If I want to hear them at their greatest, I always can I haven't seen the band live since the early 90's so can't really say much about what the current iteration sounds like live- I have seen a couple of YouTubevideos, but it didn't hold my attention unfortunately. Eldritch can - and will -do what he wants, and I reckon if he were to put a new record out, I'd be there paying for it... who knows, lets see.

DaveGeister wrote: ↑20 Mar 2022, 18:36 I was introduced to The Sisters in the 4th year at secondary school, so I guess around sept/oct 1985, my best mate was really into the Goth scene, whilst I was into Venom and Motorhead, but i loved the sound of the Sisters and set about buying what I could of them. I loved the jingle-jangle darkness of it all and those sublime vocals. When Floodland came out I was absolutely gobsmacked by the sheer size of the sound and - of course fell big time for Patricia. When Vison Thing hit, I realised things had changed, I didn't like it as much, though still bought all the vinyls. Consequently my 'time bubble' of the band is very much contained in a certain era- If I want to hear them at their greatest, I always can I haven't seen the band live since the early 90's so can't really say much about what the current iteration sounds like live- I have seen a couple of YouTubevideos, but it didn't hold my attention unfortunately. Eldritch can - and will -do what he wants, and I reckon if he were to put a new record out, I'd be there paying for it... who knows, lets see.

it sounds like your bubble started a few months after my first experience of the band at almost the same age & both of us coming freom a rock/ metal background. Once youve qualified for the Sharing section PM re: the best versions of the unreleased songs from the 97-2009 ERA as discussed here

https://www.myheartland.co.uk/viewtopic ... 20&t=26648

The gig recordings from 82 / 83 have a raw and dynamic sound - the songs are fresh and they are developing from almost amateur / post-punk to professional. An exciting period.
During 84 the technique improves, and the replacement of Ben with Wayne changes the sound
The Black October tour, and until Gary leaves in April 85 the band is at its technical best, with the FALAA tracks and KOHD
The remainder of 85 has some really great shows, but lack of bass is compensated by Eldritch's strong vocals (Italian, US etc gigs)

1990-93 is OK, but we are now hearing the harsher guitars (maybe to compete with what Eldritch considers to be a more modern / post-gothic / metal sound). The power of his voice has dropped a little, but still great. I remember Crystal Palace for example, Giving Ground was excellent. Remember this was a period of time when 80s bands struggled vs the new 90s britpop and drum n bass sounds

By the time we got to 1997-1998, the power of the vocals had really reduced, and the snarl / growl had arrived. This combined with the metal guitar work and lack of bass caused me to lose interest really. I blamed the cigarette smoking, but thats just an assumption. As for the lack of bass, maybe just economics (cost of another person)?

In recent years I re-dicovered the live 82-85 sounds from these forums and collectors. I realised that although well meaning, the cyberbio DIME tapes (high generation + ION Tape 2 PC) did not represent the best of what was actually available. They actually put me off for a while. But if you collect the better bootlegs or can obtain the DJONES or Western Dream (ROSTILL) etc tapes, you really get a much better sense of the sound.

For what its worth!

Andrew

andreww100 wrote: ↑27 Mar 2022, 16:34 The gig recordings from 82 / 83 have a raw and dynamic sound - the songs are fresh and they are developing from almost amateur / post-punk to professional. An exciting period.
...

But if you collect the better bootlegs or can obtain the DJONES or Western Dream (ROSTILL) etc tapes, you really get a much better sense of the sound.

For what its worth!

Andrew

Can you recommend some of the better boots? I've had that recently-released BBC sessions disc on insanely heavy rotation lately and would love more of that sound.

Been a while, I felt compelled.

I picked up a guitar because of Adam Pearson.
Astoria 2001 gig is the greatest thing ever.
The Sisters still gives me goosebumps.
I love the old stuff.
I love the new stuff.
Ever forward.

Purple Light wrote: ↑28 Mar 2022, 23:35 Been a while, I felt compelled.

I picked up a guitar because of Adam Pearson.
Astoria 2001 gig is the greatest thing ever.
The Sisters still gives me goosebumps.
I love the old stuff.
I love the new stuff.
Ever forward.

Rule one. Never ever see them sober.

paint it black wrote: ↑29 Mar 2022, 08:49

Purple Light wrote: ↑28 Mar 2022, 23:35 Been a while, I felt compelled.

I picked up a guitar because of Adam Pearson.
Astoria 2001 gig is the greatest thing ever.
The Sisters still gives me goosebumps.
I love the old stuff.
I love the new stuff.
Ever forward.

Rule one. Never ever see them sober.

I don’t see a heck of a lot sober mate so win win.

paint it black wrote: ↑29 Mar 2022, 08:49

Purple Light wrote: ↑28 Mar 2022, 23:35 Been a while, I felt compelled.

I picked up a guitar because of Adam Pearson.
Astoria 2001 gig is the greatest thing ever.
The Sisters still gives me goosebumps.
I love the old stuff.
I love the new stuff.
Ever forward.

Rule one. Never ever see them sober.

Peak Sisters is 4 pints and 2 double vodkas. Which surprisingly is exactly the same as what I needed to play optimal darts: less = to much nerves. more = decreased focus.

GC wrote: ↑30 Mar 2022, 19:27

paint it black wrote: ↑29 Mar 2022, 08:49

Purple Light wrote: ↑28 Mar 2022, 23:35 Been a while, I felt compelled.

I picked up a guitar because of Adam Pearson.
Astoria 2001 gig is the greatest thing ever.
The Sisters still gives me goosebumps.
I love the old stuff.
I love the new stuff.
Ever forward.

Rule one. Never ever see them sober.

Peak Sisters is 4 pints and 2 double vodkas. Which surprisingly is exactly the same as what I needed to play optimal darts: less = to much nerves. more = decreased focus.

I once saw them when full of scotch and ended up poking the little fella in the chest to make sure he was real. He took it well.
I stuck to vodka for the rest of the tour.

Hey, did you know The Sisters of Mercy are playing tonight?

I'll be checking the setlist on my way to bed tonight and refreshing YouTube in the morning for clips.

Just like the rest of you losers.

Todashi wrote: ↑31 Mar 2022, 09:53 Hey, did you know The Sisters of Mercy are playing tonight?

I'll be checking the setlist on my way to bed tonight and refreshing YouTube in the morning for clips.

Just like the rest of you losers.

They are indeed at the PAARD in Den Haag tonight. Hoping for new songs and that someone's taping.
I will be doing the same

FireInReptileHouse wrote: ↑31 Mar 2022, 10:33

Todashi wrote: ↑31 Mar 2022, 09:53 Hey, did you know The Sisters of Mercy are playing tonight?

I'll be checking the setlist on my way to bed tonight and refreshing YouTube in the morning for clips.

Just like the rest of you losers.

They are indeed at the PAARD in Den Haag tonight. Hoping for new songs and that someone's taping.
I will be doing the same

At least two tapers. Nothing new. Save the beer for another night.