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Demoes for the follow-up to 'First And Last Always'?
Posted: 09 Nov 2022, 12:47
by FinnMacCool
Question: how many demos did the band record for the projected follow-up to 'First And Last And Always', before the That Guitarist and Craig Adams left and that incarnation of the band broke up? I've heard of 'Wide Receiver' and 'Red Skies Disappear' - were there any others?
Re: Demoes for the follow-up to 'First And Last Always'?
Posted: 09 Nov 2022, 12:59
by Being645
No, Wide Receiver is a demo track first recorded by Andrew Eldritch around 1984 ...
...
viewtopic.php?t=2599&postdays=0&postord ... r&start=25
and Red Skies Disappear was recorded during the FALAA recording sessions before the final lyrics were done.
Best check this wonderful blog...
...
https://heavyleatherblog.wordpress.com/ ... nd-always/
Re: Demoes for the follow-up to 'First And Last Always'?
Posted: 09 Nov 2022, 13:00
by alanm
Demo's from _after_ the FALAA sessions is an interesting topic.
Check out Nikolas' in depth research on the subject here:
https://sistersfan.blogspot.com/2019/01 ... art-1.html
https://sistersfan.blogspot.com/2019/01 ... -pt-2.html
https://sistersfan.blogspot.com/2019/02 ... -pt-3.html
I won't repeat any of that material, but I will steal a link to a demo from Wayne, Craig and the Dok:
Re: Demoes for the follow-up to 'First And Last Always'?
Posted: 09 Nov 2022, 16:17
by FinnMacCool
Thanks guys, interesting stuff
Re: Demoes for the follow-up to 'First And Last Always'?
Posted: 09 Nov 2022, 18:12
by FinnMacCool
I am going to try and compose a list of all the post-FALAA pre-break-up demos we know of
Re: Demoes for the follow-up to 'First And Last Always'?
Posted: 09 Nov 2022, 18:56
by czuczu
Re: Demoes for the follow-up to 'First And Last Always'?
Posted: 09 Nov 2022, 18:58
by FinnMacCool
Well, yes. But that's not quite the full story
Re: Demoes for the follow-up to 'First And Last Always'?
Posted: 09 Nov 2022, 19:21
by mh
It's a reasonable guess that much of the early M-band material dates to the Sisters, but you can't make a blanket assumption.
Songs we know for definite include Wasteland, Serpents Kiss, Garden Of Delight, and Wayne has claimed Wake. Obviously some of those only existed as instrumentals. And The Dance Goes On dates way back in Wayne's past, before the Sisters, before Dead Or Alive. The rough lyrics Wayne sings on his demo of what became Black Planet were pulled apart and reused on a bunch of other M-band songs, including Naked And Savage and Dance On Glass. That one pre-dates FALAA though.
We don't know as much about what Von had. Stories from the time indicate he had Torch and what became Lucretia, but we don't know how complete they were. If Wayne is to be believed, and I see no reason not to, they were probably very bare skeletons. Von also had a bunch of song titles, but there's no evidence of anything being actually behind them. This Corrosion almost certainly dates to the Sisterhood era, so while Von had the title quite early, we can say with a high degree of confidence that he had very little, if anything, else of it.
Re: Demoes for the follow-up to 'First And Last Always'?
Posted: 09 Nov 2022, 19:24
by FinnMacCool
mh wrote: ↑09 Nov 2022, 19:21
It's a reasonable guess that much of the early M-band material dates to the Sisters, but you can't make a blanket assumption.
Songs we know for definite include Wasteland, Serpents Kiss, Garden Of Delight, and Wayne has claimed Wake. Obviously some of those only existed as instrumentals. And The Dance Goes On dates way back in Wayne's past, before the Sisters, before Dead Or Alive. The rough lyrics Wayne sings on his demo of what became Black Planet were pulled apart and reused on a bunch of other M-band songs, including Naked And Savage and Dance On Glass. That one pre-dates FALAA though.
We don't know as much about what Von had. Stories from the time indicate he had Torch and what became Lucretia, but we don't know how complete they were. If Wayne is to be believed, and I see no reason not to, they were probably very bare skeletons. Von also had a bunch of song titles, but there's no evidence of anything being actually behind them. This Corrosion almost certainly dates to the Sisterhood era, so while Von had the title quite early, we can say with a high degree of confidence that he had very little, if anything, else of it.
Informative, thank you
Re: Demoes for the follow-up to 'First And Last Always'?
Posted: 09 Nov 2022, 19:34
by FinnMacCool
At the beginning of the first of Nikolas' blog posts, he writes:
"In a series of four previous posts, we examined the events that resulted the definitive splits in the band in 1985, shortly after the release of debut album First and Last and Always."
Where actually are those posts? I looked back through the blog and can't see them...
Re: Demoes for the follow-up to 'First And Last Always'?
Posted: 09 Nov 2022, 21:07
by Being645
Re: Demoes for the follow-up to 'First And Last Always'?
Posted: 10 Nov 2022, 10:10
by alanm
wot he said. links to the the same blog on the wiki
Re: Demoes for the follow-up to 'First And Last Always'?
Posted: 10 Nov 2022, 12:06
by FinnMacCool
Thanks amigos: that's exactly what I was looking for (and failing to find)
Re: Demoes for the follow-up to 'First And Last Always'?
Posted: 10 Nov 2022, 12:32
by Gaijin
FinnMacCool wrote: ↑09 Nov 2022, 18:12
I am going to try and compose a demo of all the post-FALAA pre-break-up demos we know of
AFAIK
Serpent's Kiss (instrumental) (Easter 1985)
Knockin' On Heaven's Door (June 1985)
Re: Demoes for the follow-up to 'First And Last Always'?
Posted: 10 Nov 2022, 13:54
by Suleiman
I read in one of the recent biographies that Ritual was a track that eventually became Come Together.
I haven't heard it but it is interesting to speculate.
Re: Demoes for the follow-up to 'First And Last Always'?
Posted: 10 Nov 2022, 15:46
by FinnMacCool
Gaijin wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 12:32
FinnMacCool wrote: ↑09 Nov 2022, 18:12
I am going to try and compose a demo of all the post-FALAA pre-break-up demos we know of
AFAIK
Serpent's Kiss (instrumental) (Easter 1985)
Knockin' On Heaven's Door (June 1985)
Gracias!
Re: Demoes for the follow-up to 'First And Last Always'?
Posted: 10 Nov 2022, 15:47
by FinnMacCool
Suleiman wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 13:54
I read in one of the recent biographies that Ritual was a track that eventually became Come Together.
I haven't heard it but it is interesting to speculate.
I've never heard that before! Is the 'Ritual' demo out there?
Re: Demoes for the follow-up to 'First And Last Always'?
Posted: 11 Nov 2022, 13:47
by Suleiman
I have never heard it but it is mentioned in Trevor Ristow's excellent Waiting For Another War. How he got his information about that track I don't know.
Re: Demoes for the follow-up to 'First And Last Always'?
Posted: 11 Nov 2022, 15:13
by FinnMacCool
Suleiman wrote: ↑11 Nov 2022, 13:47
I have never heard it but it is mentioned in Trevor Ristow's excellent Waiting For Another War. How he got his information about that track I don't know.
Still, an interesting idea though
Re: Demoes for the follow-up to 'First And Last Always'?
Posted: 11 Nov 2022, 16:43
by mh
I'd forgotten about Ritual, and I likewise don't know where the information came from. It must have been inside information or a "source close to the band", though.
It's probably appropriate to drop this here:
(Link in case the image doesn't show:
https://www.sisterswiki.org/images/9/9c ... _Inlay.jpg)
These are the song titles Von had for the album in 1985:
- Second Nature
- Torch
- Giving Ground
- Pillowtalk
- Heaven on Earth
- This Corrosion
- Ritual
- Driven Like the Snow
- Mission
- Bury Me Deep
This probably suggests more questions than answers, though. Although it was a tape inlay, I don't recall any evidence of an actual tape to go with it. Did Von just have the titles, or were there actual songs (music/lyrics) to go with all/some/none of them? Are they all Von songs or is it a mix of Von and Wayne songs? Some of the titles sound more like Wayne titles than Von titles:
Second Nature,
Pillowtalk,
Heaven on Earth, to my ears, sound more like Wayne.
Bury Me Deep is recycled from the
NTTC B-sides; Von was evidently keen on that song.
Some other observations:
Torch is known from contemporary accounts to have been one of the Von songs that Wayne and Craig objected to. The music at least probably existed at the time.
The lyrics to
Giving Ground were written by Boyd Steemson, IIRC, and in response to the whole Sisterhood fiasco. Von may or may not have had the music earlier.
The earliest evidence of
This Corrosion is from the Sisterhood times, and the song was very skeletal in comparison to what it would become. I'd say Von just had the title.
Driven Like the Snow appears as an instrumental in the Floodland demos, but the title is a clear reference to a line from
Nine While Nine , and Von always said he saw it as
NWN part 2. He may have had a concept for the song at least.
Re: Demoes for the follow-up to 'First And Last Always'?
Posted: 11 Nov 2022, 17:03
by FinnMacCool
mh wrote: ↑11 Nov 2022, 16:43
I'd forgotten about Ritual, and I likewise don't know where the information came from. It must have been inside information or a "source close to the band", though.
It's probably appropriate to drop this here:
(Link in case the image doesn't show:
https://www.sisterswiki.org/images/9/9c ... _Inlay.jpg)
These are the song titles Von had for the album in 1985:
- Second Nature
- Torch
- Giving Ground
- Pillowtalk
- Heaven on Earth
- This Corrosion
- Ritual
- Driven Like the Snow
- Mission
- Bury Me Deep
This probably suggests more questions than answers, though. Although it was a tape inlay, I don't recall any evidence of an actual tape to go with it. Did Von just have the titles, or were there actual songs (music/lyrics) to go with all/some/none of them? Are they all Von songs or is it a mix of Von and Wayne songs? Some of the titles sound more like Wayne titles than Von titles:
Second Nature,
Pillowtalk,
Heaven on Earth, to my ears, sound more like Wayne.
Bury Me Deep is recycled from the
NTTC B-sides; Von was evidently keen on that song.
Some other observations:
Torch is known from contemporary accounts to have been one of the Von songs that Wayne and Craig objected to. The music at least probably existed at the time.
The lyrics to
Giving Ground were written by Boyd Steemson, IIRC, and in response to the whole Sisterhood fiasco. Von may or may not have had the music earlier.
The earliest evidence of
This Corrosion is from the Sisterhood times, and the song was very skeletal in comparison to what it would become. I'd say Von just had the title.
Driven Like the Snow appears as an instrumental in the Floodland demos, but the title is a clear reference to a line from
Nine While Nine , and Von always said he saw it as
NWN part 2. He may have had a concept for the song at least.
Re: Demoes for the follow-up to 'First And Last Always'?
Posted: 11 Nov 2022, 17:35
by Dr. Moody
Didn't Mark Andrews have some Wayne demos (from Hamburg when he worked with
after the break up) in a playlist exclusively for the book launch?
Re: Demoes for the follow-up to 'First And Last Always'?
Posted: 20 Nov 2022, 12:57
by GC
mh wrote: ↑11 Nov 2022, 16:43
Torch is known from contemporary accounts to have been one of the Von songs that Wayne and Craig objected to. The music at least probably existed at the time.
Good call from Wayne and Craig
It is s**t....
Re: Demoes for the follow-up to 'First And Last Always'?
Posted: 13 Dec 2022, 19:57
by satanarchist
OHH- I had never heard this. Thanks!
Re: Demoes for the follow-up to 'First And Last Always'?
Posted: 19 Dec 2022, 16:54
by FinnMacCool
satanarchist wrote: ↑13 Dec 2022, 19:57
OHH- I had never heard this. Thanks!
Likewise
