Heartland

GC wrote: ↑02 Dec 2023, 15:11 I'm curious how Irish people view him? As a purveyor of Irishness and being proud or as perpetuating negative Irish stereotypes. (or somewhere in between)

I always viewed him as a curiosity - I loved "If I should fall from grace" and listended to it constanly when it came out - beautiful lyrically. But this was set against somebody who always in a complete stupor and difficult to take seriously. I would often just feel sorry for him.

sultan2075 wrote: ↑03 Dec 2023, 00:31

GC wrote: ↑02 Dec 2023, 15:11 I'm curious how Irish people view him? As a purveyor of Irishness and being proud or as perpetuating negative Irish stereotypes. (or somewhere in between)

I always viewed him as a curiosity - I loved "If I should fall from grace" and listended to it constanly when it came out - beautiful lyrically. But this was set against somebody who always in a complete stupor and difficult to take seriously. I would often just feel sorry for him.

I can't speak for the Irish Irish, but if I were to take a stab at it, I'd say "somewhere in between." He did a lot to re-invigorate Irish music (and at his best he was, in my opinion, an astonishingly talented songwriter), but he also embodied a lot of negative stereotypes despite his talent. For folks like me (who grew up American, but in a home where some family members spoke Irish as their first language rather than English), his pride in being Irish (while he was also part of the diaspora) was easy to relate to, and maybe even necessary for a lot of us. He certainly gave voice to experiences that were common to a lot of first/second generation descendants of Irish immigrants in the American northeast. He was "visibly" Irish in a way that someone like Bono never really seemed to be, and certainly in the 80's that probably meant a lot to people who lived where anti-Irish sentiment was still acceptable (something I experienced as a child in both New York and Texas).

I think maybe the other thing I’d add is that the Pogues took the stuff I always heard at home, which wasn’t really accepted in the wider world I lived in, and made it “cool” at least for a while.

GC wrote: ↑03 Dec 2023, 21:34

Its interesting that you dont view U2 (Bono) as being visibly Irish. As a welshman with our own problems with being recognised I always viewed The Pogues as a beacon of Irish fatalism (if that is a term?) where it all ultimately ends in failure and/or alcoholism. U2 also embraced their Irishness (IMO) but were more focussed on progression and consolidation. A bit like comparing Richard Burton with Anthony Hopkins.