John Cale vs Lou Reed

Does exactly what it says on the tin. Some of the nonsense contained herein may be very loosely related to The Sisters of Mercy, but I wouldn't bet your PayPal account on it. In keeping with the internet's general theme nothing written here should be taken as Gospel: over three quarters of it is utter gibberish, and most of the forum's denizens haven't spoken to another human being face-to-face for decades. Don't worry your pretty little heads about it. Above all else, remember this: You don't have to stay forever. I will understand.
Post Reply
User avatar
James Blast
Banned
Posts: 24699
Joined: 11 Jun 2003, 18:58
Location: back from some place else

after witnessing JC on Later tonight, I think he was the brilliance behind VU, any takers?
"And when you start to think about death, you start to think about what's after it. And then you start hoping there is a God. For me, it's a frightening thought to go nowhere".
~ Peter Steele
Top
User avatar
Andy TG
Overbomber
Posts: 2588
Joined: 30 Jan 2002, 00:00
Location: Wherever I Am At The Time......

Red Sunsets wrote:after witnessing JC on Later tonight, I think he was the brilliance behind VU, any takers?
I am a huge Lou Reed fan :notworthy: Then again I am also a big fan of the Velvet Underground :notworthy:

Recent Lour Reed albums (New York/Magic and Loss etc) are Great - Songs fro Drella (with JC) is also fine album.

JC wrote "Rose Garden Funeral Of Sores as covered by Bauhaus in the 80's and he from Swansea, South Wales and is therefore Welsh

Lou Reed is great songwriter - and only gets better with age IMHO

I cant agree or disagree to be honest - each man and his music has its own merits. That said I would sooner listen to Reed than Cale, but then I have not heard very much of Cales "solo" recordings.

Does this answer the question ;-)
This Is Not Ordinary S & M
This Is M & S S & M
Top
User avatar
Silver_Owl
The Don
Posts: 7498
Joined: 27 Sep 2003, 18:52

I think when they worked together they were awesome. They had a shared vision of what they wanted to achieve and they did exactly that. Some of the 'sonic attack' stuff they did before Cale left the group was ground breaking then and still is now.

Individually though I don't think Cale could compete with Reeds public profile in the success stakes.

Cale always had a more avante garde classical approach, whereas Reed came from the school of writing pop songs.

I don't know either, basically. :lol:
We forgive as we forget
As the day is long.
Top
User avatar
randdebiel²
Utterly Bastard Groovy Amphetamine Filth
Posts: 860
Joined: 08 Jul 2003, 09:14
Location: Brussels

AndyTheGoth wrote:
Red Sunsets wrote:after witnessing JC on Later tonight, I think he was the brilliance behind VU, any takers?
I am a huge Lou Reed fan :notworthy: Then again I am also a big fan of the Velvet Underground :notworthy:

Recent Lour Reed albums (New York/Magic and Loss etc) are Great - Songs fro Drella (with JC) is also fine album.

JC wrote "Rose Garden Funeral Of Sores as covered by Bauhaus in the 80's and he from Swansea, South Wales and is therefore Welsh

Lou Reed is great songwriter - and only gets better with age IMHO

I cant agree or disagree to be honest - each man and his music has its own merits. That said I would sooner listen to Reed than Cale, but then I have not heard very much of Cales "solo" recordings.

Does this answer the question ;-)
no it does not :D because...your "recent" albums new-york and magic and loss....although great aren't recent, are they? (ok in sisters terms they are, true :lol: ) recent albums by Lou are the hideous "songs in the key of e" or "the raven"....of course he made brilliant albums in the past, I love him too...but then again so did JC....
"Music for a new society" is one of my favourite records ever, "sabotage live" was great too, "paris 1919" was awesome, "fragments" was great, so was "eat/kiss music for andy warhol movies", his producing work on the stooges' first album his really early experimental work (pré velvet underground)...and s on....
In the velvets, although Lou made the songs, Cale brought the ambience in it...just listen to the viola on "venus in furs" or "heroin".....or just listen to the velvet after cale left......
last year I went to a Lou Reed gig...it was absolutely brilliant, and after the show I said he definitely buried cale (who I had seen 15 times the last ten years, always touring around with his piano-set, which was becoming quite boring, especially since he seemed to have lost the passion, and was playing a bit on auto-pilot...) but then a few mon,ths later we went to see John Cale again, because he would play with a band for once and I wanted to see it one time....but that gig, was much better than Lou's....more passionate, more rock'n roll, more intense, also better musically, more original....
and, both played a version of "venus in furs" my favourite song, ever!
when Lou did it, I started crying, because I had been waiting all my life for this (they never play it live.....),it was very good....
but when Cale did it, I understood why him, and only him, owned that song.....it was absolutely perfect......maybe the ultimate musical moment of my life.....
I know I'm writing all emotional about this matter, but It means a lot to me..... :oops:
shiny, shiny, shiny boots of leather....
Top
User avatar
James Blast
Banned
Posts: 24699
Joined: 11 Jun 2003, 18:58
Location: back from some place else

Yeah that's what I was gonna say lmfao :D

regards
Blast
"And when you start to think about death, you start to think about what's after it. And then you start hoping there is a God. For me, it's a frightening thought to go nowhere".
~ Peter Steele
Top
User avatar
Chairman Bux
shut.the.fuck.up
Posts: 931
Joined: 23 May 2002, 01:00
Location: Buxville-on-Sea
Contact:
Contact Chairman Bux

Nice thread, but wrong area. Try "General Chat" ;)
Minister of Misinformation and Misdirection.

We first met through a shared view
She loved me and I did too
Top
User avatar
James Blast
Banned
Posts: 24699
Joined: 11 Jun 2003, 18:58
Location: back from some place else

isn't this General Chat? I do lose the soundtrack now and again but this time I was sure I had it nailed?

if not

all apologies
James Blast
"And when you start to think about death, you start to think about what's after it. And then you start hoping there is a God. For me, it's a frightening thought to go nowhere".
~ Peter Steele
Top
User avatar
Silver_Owl
The Don
Posts: 7498
Joined: 27 Sep 2003, 18:52

Where am I? Please help. :eek:
We forgive as we forget
As the day is long.
Top
User avatar
Quiff Boy
Herr Administrator
Posts: 16769
Joined: 25 Jan 2002, 00:00
Location: Lurking and fixing
Contact:
Contact Quiff Boy

methinks the chairman has already moved it... as is his want. 8)
What’s the difference between a buffalo and a bison?
Top
ryan
Utterly Bastard Groovy Amphetamine Filth
Posts: 851
Joined: 22 May 2003, 10:57

im gonna have to go for lou reed on this one

velvet underground + metal machine music :wink: :D :D :D
Top
User avatar
randdebiel²
Utterly Bastard Groovy Amphetamine Filth
Posts: 860
Joined: 08 Jul 2003, 09:14
Location: Brussels

ryan_w_0000 wrote:im gonna have to go for lou reed on this one

velvet underground + metal machine music :wink: :D :D :D
:eek: wasn't this about who "was" the VU?
metal machine music is great indeed, but I don't see your point?
shiny, shiny, shiny boots of leather....
Top
User avatar
rian
Slight Overbomber
Posts: 1842
Joined: 07 Mar 2002, 00:00
Location: Stockholm/Sweden
Contact:
Contact rian

I saw Reed on swedish telly 2 nights ago. A live show. Pretty good. New gig I think.
I think someone set my soul alight
Top
User avatar
randdebiel²
Utterly Bastard Groovy Amphetamine Filth
Posts: 860
Joined: 08 Jul 2003, 09:14
Location: Brussels

rian wrote:I saw Reed on swedish telly 2 nights ago. A live show. Pretty good. New gig I think.
his recent shows are very good indeed, I saw him last year like I said, he used Anthony (the one related to the current'93 "bunch" ....he's so funny :lol:
but I must say, it's more a greatest hits show than anything else, and although I really loved it, it doesn't really give an impression of great creativity...especially since , when you lisen to Lou's songs there's much to argue to the fact that everything's already in teh velvet songs....most of what he did afterwards MUSICALLY (because he's text always evolved, and definitely got better, except he never equalled heroin and venus in furs, but then again, who could......)was more ripping that repertoire off than anything else (with the exception of metal music machine, of course.....)
shiny, shiny, shiny boots of leather....
Top
ryan
Utterly Bastard Groovy Amphetamine Filth
Posts: 851
Joined: 22 May 2003, 10:57

randdebiel² wrote:
ryan_w_0000 wrote:im gonna have to go for lou reed on this one

velvet underground + metal machine music :wink: :D :D :D
:eek: wasn't this about who "was" the VU?
metal machine music is great indeed, but I don't see your point?
theres a pont somewhere- i swear :innocent: :innocent:
Top
User avatar
randdebiel²
Utterly Bastard Groovy Amphetamine Filth
Posts: 860
Joined: 08 Jul 2003, 09:14
Location: Brussels

ryan_w_0000 wrote: theres a pont somewhere- i swear :innocent: :innocent:
ah sorry then :notworthy: ;D
shiny, shiny, shiny boots of leather....
Top
User avatar
randdebiel²
Utterly Bastard Groovy Amphetamine Filth
Posts: 860
Joined: 08 Jul 2003, 09:14
Location: Brussels

ok....I saw John Cale again yesterday and it sucked! :( the drummer was bad and too loud....Cale himself was clearly not in the mood....but the new songs are great!
shiny, shiny, shiny boots of leather....
Top
ryan
Utterly Bastard Groovy Amphetamine Filth
Posts: 851
Joined: 22 May 2003, 10:57

i dont think cale or reed were the main honcho for the velvet underground-

how can we get doug yule with the legendary 'squeeze' album :wink: :lol:

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=am ... jm7i2jg7xr
Top
User avatar
Silver_Owl
The Don
Posts: 7498
Joined: 27 Sep 2003, 18:52

How on earth was Doug Yule allowed to use the name?
Give Sterling a bit of credit too. :notworthy:
We forgive as we forget
As the day is long.
Top
User avatar
randdebiel²
Utterly Bastard Groovy Amphetamine Filth
Posts: 860
Joined: 08 Jul 2003, 09:14
Location: Brussels

Doug Yule Image
shiny, shiny, shiny boots of leather....
Top
User avatar
randdebiel²
Utterly Bastard Groovy Amphetamine Filth
Posts: 860
Joined: 08 Jul 2003, 09:14
Location: Brussels

Sorry, I can't seem to stop this thread....
I bought Cale's new album recently and it's one of the best albums I heard in a few years....
also
I've been listening to The VU and Nico again.....
1)Sunday morning:mainly Nico here...
2)Waiting for the man? isn't this a cale song...I always thought, if there was an argument for "Lou being the VU" it would have been this song...but then on the reunion album cale did a fantastic job on it...and his own version is unbelievable.....I don't even think Cale would have been able to have his own version if Lou had written it.....
3)Femme Fatale...nico again....
4)Venus in Furs, clearly cale, in every aspect....
5)Run run run...THIS is Lou.....but it's the song I don't like on the album.....
6)All tomorrow's parties....clearly nico and cale.....
7)Heroin...this is a call, but I'd say what really makes it is Cale's violin and Mo's drumming.....Lou's versions were never half as good as this.....
8)There she goes again Lou, but I don't like it that much
9)I'll be your mirror....Lou and Nico....ok this is really good.....
10)European son....everyone....
shiny, shiny, shiny boots of leather....
Top
User avatar
Silver_Owl
The Don
Posts: 7498
Joined: 27 Sep 2003, 18:52

Whats all this Nico business? Lou still wrote the songs for her to sing.
We forgive as we forget
As the day is long.
Top
User avatar
randdebiel²
Utterly Bastard Groovy Amphetamine Filth
Posts: 860
Joined: 08 Jul 2003, 09:14
Location: Brussels

Steve303 wrote:Whats all this Nico business? Lou still wrote the songs for her to sing.
he wrote the lyrics, but let's be serious, even if the lyrics were crap the songs would still be brilliant....the point is, we'll never know who wrote the songs themselves...... Lou always claims he has....like for example when he said he knew in advance what the viola part of Caéle would be in "venus in furs"..... :eek:
shiny, shiny, shiny boots of leather....
Top
User avatar
kafka
Amphetamine Filth
Posts: 160
Joined: 21 Nov 2003, 21:18

randdebiel² wrote:he wrote the lyrics, but let's be serious, even if the lyrics were **** the songs would still be brilliant
What do you mean, "even if"? :) .. at any rate, it's apples and oranges, really - I love Nico and White Light/White Heat, and I love Loaded, and I love all the rest of it. John Cale's mighty fine, but can come across as a bit of a pompous avant-garde wanker.. while Lou's a bit of a todger, really, and writes some dreadful nonsense (lyrically and musically).. but he's also written some fantastic tunes. So in short, erm, I've very little to contribute. But when it comes down to it, I'd rather listen to Sweet Jane than to Sun Blindness Music, or whatever it's called...
[repeat x40]
Top
User avatar
randdebiel²
Utterly Bastard Groovy Amphetamine Filth
Posts: 860
Joined: 08 Jul 2003, 09:14
Location: Brussels

kafka wrote:
randdebiel² wrote:he wrote the lyrics, but let's be serious, even if the lyrics were **** the songs would still be brilliant
What do you mean, "even if"? :) .. at any rate, it's apples and oranges, really - I love Nico and White Light/White Heat, and I love Loaded, and I love all the rest of it. John Cale's mighty fine, but can come across as a bit of a pompous avant-garde ****.. while Lou's a bit of a todger, really, and writes some dreadful nonsense (lyrically and musically).. but he's also written some fantastic tunes. So in short, erm, I've very little to contribute. But when it comes down to it, I'd rather listen to Sweet Jane than to Sun Blindness Music, or whatever it's called...
You love loaded? :eek: ok then I understand, but what do you mean be Sun blinded music? :lol: something that I missed in Cale's career? :eek:
shiny, shiny, shiny boots of leather....
Top
User avatar
kafka
Amphetamine Filth
Posts: 160
Joined: 21 Nov 2003, 21:18

randdebiel² wrote: You love loaded? :eek: ok then I understand, but what do you mean be Sun blinded music? :lol: something that I missed in Cale's career? :eek:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... 91-6094516

And what's not to love about Loaded? It's a lovely album - Sweet Jane? New Age? etc. Admittedly, it's quite different - more like The Beatles than The Velvets' earlier stuff.. but I'd recommend you go back and listen to it again, cos it's fab.
[repeat x40]
Top
Post Reply

Return to “General Chat”